Nobby's S-650

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
Help!
I've followed the instructions for the initial fill. 15cms in the Return Pump section, switch on circulation pumps, then switch on return pump.
My problem is that the return pump then runs dry! There is not enough water returning to the sump from the tank! The Flow Valve on the back is wide open (anti-clockwise). At this point do I add more water to bring the level up to the 20cm mark in the return pump section?
What level of water should there be in the sump when everything is switched off?
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
You need to put some more water in until it starts freely flowing through the weir and back down the down pipes and then keep adding water until the water in the sump is at a height of around 9 inches.

Don't go any higher than that otherwise when the main pump is switched off for whatever reason the water sucks back into the sump so could flood. Don't worry about the alarming noise it makes if and when you switch the pump off as it sucks and gurgles and frightened me to death the first time!

Make sure the autotop off tank is full and the auto top off is working and then just let it run for a few minutes to stabilise. Once you have the skimmer running as well you can fine tune the water level and downflow using the valve at the back right of the tank as per the instructions.

The instructions say keep the water level near the first mark in the right hand viewing window but my tank seems to adjust itself to above that all the time so there is a slight flow down the overflow pipe as well. I did adjust it all the time but it runs fine so leave it now.

Another thing to learn is that if you ever get any alarming gurgling noises it's likely the water is flooding through the down pipe too quickly so you need to close the valve slightly to slow the rate of downflow.

Anyway hopefully my steep learning curve may help you!!

PS. When the tank is balanced with the correct level of water, when you turn the main pump off the volume of water in the sump roughly goes up 50-100% ish hence don't overfill beyond 9 inches when balanced. Basically when the pump goes off water gets sucked back down the outlet hose in the main tank and the weir empties down the down pipe until the level in the tank is below the weir level and the outlet hose which seems to act like a syphon! Hence the alarming noises!
 
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Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
Thanks.
I did follow the instructions, but it's obvious that they don't work.
I did add more water, and now the tank is turning over nicely, although I would still like to know what the water level in the Sump should be when everything is switched off.
The Circulation Pumps are a bit noisy, but I'll tweak them a bit to try and make them quieter.
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
Right, I've now fiddled enough with the downflow valve to know what I'm doing :)
Update:
After completing the water fill, and messing around with the balance, I switched all the pumps off and added the sand..........The tank was cloudy for days. Sand was everywhere. Even when it had cleared a bit, every time I turkey basted sand off the rocks you couldn't see a thing.
Eventually..........it cleared enough to start the Circulation Pumps. After a day or two (can't remember) I started the Return Pump. I had to add some filter wool to the socks to help catch all the very fine powder from the sand. Also added filter wool in the space between the 'carbon' section of the sump and the return pump section to stop the micro bubbles.
I then got to the point where I decided to add the ATM Colony. The very same day I transferred over five fish from my old tank (2 x Clowns, 2 x Yellow Bellied Blue Damsels and an Orchid Dottyback). There were not any problems with the fish. I've been testing on a daily basis as well.
I then left the tank for about five days. Everything was looking good, so I went shopping and came home with 6 x Blue Chromis, a Cleaner Wrasse, a Yellow Tang and a Kole Tang. I also got a couple of frags...I need more of them, a lot more :)
So far all the fish appear to be happy and they are all feeding well. Diatoms have started to appear in small patches on the sand, but this is just part of the normal cycle.
I'm now running the Skimmer (what a noise!), and I've set-up the Rhowphos reactor as well.
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
I've been dosing NoPox but have also been looking at reactors for Phospate removers as well just for a bit of fine tuning. Not decided if I need it yet as NoPox working ok.

Just wondered which Rhowphos reactor you got and why? My LFS gave me something called BioPhos 80 which doesn't seem that well known and I just put some in a media bag in the sump along with the carbon bag so I'm looking at others stuff like for example Rhowphos etc and easy to use reactors
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
I've got the D-D FMR75. After doing a lot of reading, I bought it without the pump they supply it with, as the general view was that it was too powerful for Rhowphos. It appears to have been designed for Bio Pellets.
I bought a cheap Eheim Compact 600 pump to work it. It is very easy to set-up. The pump is silent. I run it with Rhowphos, for Phosphate and Silicate removal.
So far in the tank I haven't found any traces of Phosphate, so I think it's working !
I'm also planning to run with Triton Core7, so I will not have an Algae Bed. Therefore I need a Skimmer, Rhowphos Reactor, Active Carbon etc for the Nutrient Export.

Also, having it bubbling away, when friends who know nothing about fish keeping look at it, they seem impressed as it gives the impression we know what we're doing :yup:
 
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Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
Time for an update!
The tank is ticking over very nicely. Since early on it's been running with Rowaphos in a D-D reactor, a Marine Pure Block 8x8x4, Activated Carbon in bags, filter floss in the socks, and the stock C-Skim 1800. I've since added a 36w UV and a Temperature Controller which I've stuck on the front of the Power Centre.
I've not had any spikes at all with the parameters. I did have a dusting of Diatoms on the sand which spread to the rocks, but I added some Sera Silicate Remover (in bags) and this seemed to remove the Diatoms from the rocks, although I still have a light dusting on the sand.
I have started Dosing with Triton Core 7 Reef Supplements at a rate of 6ml a day. I think this is still a bit too much as my stocking levels are quite low and the KH has started to creep up, so I'll adjust this to Dose every other day and monitor the situation.

Livestock now includes:-
6 x Blue Chromis
2 x Clowns
1 x Cleaner Wrasee
2 x Yellow Bellied Damsels
1 x Kole Tang
1 x Yellow Tang
1 x Coral Beauty
2 x Cleaner Shrimp
1 x Peppermint Shrimp
20 x various snails and hermit crabs.
Corals:
about 18 pieces (heads?) of Orange Florida Ricordia
1 x Torch
1 x Hammer
2 x Zoas (small colonies)
1 x Hydnophora
1 x Finger Coral
1 x Mushroom Coral
1 x Red Plating Monti

Hardware Problems:
The only issue is with the C-Skim 1800. I now have it tuned-in and I never have to adjust it. It skims very well and removes a lot of gunk. However, there is the noise problem. If I lived on my own I could deal with it, but the tank is in the Living Room and I get a lot of complaints from my wife. It has to go. I've tried everything from placing additional foam padding underneath, to fiddling with the air intake. I've ensured it is not touching the Sump anywhere, but it still produces a constant deep hummimg noise.
I'm looking at the NYOS 160 at the moment as a replacement, unless of course, you have any other recommendations? As the S-650 is Red Sea's Flagship Tank, this issue should have been addressed ages ago.
I had a small issue with the LED lights. If I try to connect to the Router, one of the lights just drops out, and this affects the other three units. I was coming home from work some days to find the tank in darkness. I solved this by only connecting the lights in 'Standalone Mode' directly to my phone. No big deal, but the lights really should work as advertised. Oh, and my Router is about six feet from the lights, so signal strength is not a problem. The problem is NOT with the Router.

Otherwise I am totally happy with the S-650. It looks fantastic and it's everything I wanted it to be.
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
Let me know if you decide anything on skimmers etc as you now from 'the other site' I've been looking as well.

Not seen the NYOS before but looks good and will study that. I have been looking a bit higher end such as the Deltec SC1660 and also the Tunze Master Docs as if I replace the C Skim I'm thinking you maybe get what you pay for and C Skim is around the NYOS price as well. I'm no expert though and it seems a mine field with choice etc.

On the C Skim just try touching and pressing in different locations to see if the noise changes and also the outlet pipe. I have my outlet just resting in a wire from a pump which relieved some resonance.

What's the temperature controller 'stuck on the power centre'?

Oh and did you update your build thread because I did!!? Just don't seem to get many comments other than views so... got a bit bored talking to myself...
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
Yep. I updated after reading yours :)
I think we're both in a similar position as this is the first 'large tank with sump' we've ever had, and so many things are new to both of us.
You're right about the Skimmer world being a minefield! With the C-Skim I've tried moving it slightly, tipping it backwards a little bit, tipping it forwards. I've even put some sponge under the Outlet Pipe to avoid it resting on the glass of the sump.
My LFS has a 20% off everything next week, so I'm using that opportunity to get a new Skimmer, and save a few bob at the same time.
With the Temperature Controller I have just used some double-sided sticky stuff to mount the display on the front of the Power Centre. The cables then just run up into the Power Centre. The cable with the Probe on it runs through the small gap at the top-right of the Chiller side and then down into the Sump. I'll post some pictures when I get home later today.
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
Yes definitely we are same position although this is my first venture into aquariums of any kind as never had one even freshwater! If you want to PM me anytime maybe use RC as seems easier etc.

I've been to my LFS today to get some more rock etc, and I asked them about skimmers and guess which they recommend without any input from me. The NYOS 160!

Looks a very nice piece of kit and also has a drain tube outlet which I like as I use a milk carton to drain into as easy to empty. Having seen it I nearly got it there and then but thought I best read up a bit more. Looks very good and apparently very quiet.

They also have the Deltec but he said something about issues with the new pumps or something.

If you get it let me know how you get on

I haven't got a chiller as yet as trying to get away without one although I was recently looking at combined heater/chillers.
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
This first picture shows my Doser Set-up. The Doser is sat on a small 'stool' I made myself. The Element Bottles are placed down by the side. The Doser feeds the elements via the tubes that are fed up and through the small gap on the top right (front) of the Chiller Area/Sump Area. The Tubes are then connected along the inside/top of the Sump Area are are held in place by suction holders, so they are hidden. They then emerge on the far right of the sump area to drip into the Return Pump section.
temp2_zpsga69ifom.jpg

Hope that makes sense :)
The second picture shows the Temperature Controller that is 'stuck' onto the front of the Power Centre. The power cord just runs up and into the Power Centre. The cord with the Temperature Probe follows the same route as the Doser Tubes, but instead of going into the far right of the Sump just drop down on the left and sits in the main Refugum area. I just need to tidy-up the cables a little bit!
As for a Chiller, I don't need one yet, but I may do in the Summer. I'm living near Frankfurt, and for the last three summers the temperature at times can reach just over 40 degrees! It can often be over 30 degrees for weeks on end! After doing a bit of research and taking the advice of Kevin D, I'll probably get the Teco TK500. It's not the cheapest, nor the most expensive, but it will sit nicely into the Chiller Area, and still leave enough room for my cheapo 'stool' assembly that houses the doser unit and the power units from the lights.
temp1.jpg temp2.jpg
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
I've also been looking at the Teko 500 but I'm trying to avoid getting it if I can. As you know apart from a generally short period of time it's not often above 30 over here. Usually mid to high 20's

It's not the money or anything, but I have filled my chiller cabinet with a 90-100 litre box with the auto top off water in so only need to fill every 2 to 2 1/2 weeks. Linked to the Tunze osmolator and then the built in ATO is backup.

I am a bit concerned about the noise so if I get one I'm going to locate it in a room next door with around 6 ft of hose each way and just drill hole in wall. Hence currently trying to avoid it! The hose won't be visible or anything as everything needs to be tidy. I have all my dosing stuff and everything else in a Matt black ikea cabinet at side of tank on left so you cant see anything. Matches quiet nicely.

I think for this year I'm going to try a few things if it gets really hot for odd days, weeks. LIke freezing a few of the large pop bottles with RO and freezing them and then dropping in sump a couple at a time when needed and maybe also get a big fan! If I need to I'll get a Teko but....

I don't have a temperature control like yours which I assume is hooked to heaters? I've just got 2 (for backup) 200w Eheim heaters in the sump with their own sensors. They are hardly ever on and the tank seems to produce enough heat to stay around 26c most of the time without any intervention with the ambient room Temperature

On the skimmers I still like both the NYOS but also Deltec. I have been in touch with DD as I thought the SC1660 may be to powerful and they confirmed it would be (wouldn't produce enough waste to climb the skimmer properly) The option is the Deltec SC 1456 with cleaner head. I think I am actually going to keep the C Skim until it breaks down as it does work fine but be ready to change if and when anything happens. I can't really notice the noise to be quiet honest.
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
I also had two Eheim heaters in the Sump. The only reason for getting the Temperature Controller was to get rid of the old style thermometer and have a nice looking display, plus, it freed up another plug in the Power Centre as the Temperature Controller comes with two plugs. One for a heater and the other to control the Chiller. So now I have just the one heater, with the other as a spare. The Temp Controller will also stop the heater from going tits-up ie. boiling the tank, because if the temperature goes 1 degree above the setting, then it switches the heater off. It's just another little safety feature. Sometimes, the heaters like the Eheim ones, go out of control and they can either stop working (temperature drops) or they stay on and boil the tank.
I got a Aqua Marine temperature controller, but if I were in the UK I'd get one from Simply Aquaria. They are not expensive (forty quid?) and they do provide a bit more security.....and forty quid is about the price of a decent frag here !
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
Thanks think I'll order one of those

The Eheim heaters seem to be a bit inaccurate as I have mine set right down to 24c and it still comes on at around 25.8 ish. I've been watching it for the last few weeks whilst pondering wether to get a Teco 500/1000.
 
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SPR

Well-Known Member
Actually ive just remembered why I haven't got a temperature controller as yet. it's because I'm going to get an Apex system. I'm just waiting for the new EB8UK energy bar to be released in the UK which I believe is later this year. It's currently only supplied here with the old energy bar EB6 which doesn't monitor power usage/failures etc.

On the basis of the price of it I don't want to get the old model and of course this includes full temperature controls etc.
 
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Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what an Apex System brings to the party?

Anyway, I've bought the NYOS 160! It's still in the box another issue has raised it's ugly head.......My RO water is no good! I usually test it on a regular basis, but in all the excitement of building the tank, I forgot. I've had a couple of issues with some frags, and when I checked the RO water, it was reading 33ppm! As my RO Unit was about seven years old I decided to buy a new one and got a Dupla 270, which produces RO water far quicker than my old unit! Now I need to find a DI unit for it. After some language problems in a shop yesterday, I got home to find they'd sold me a Silicate Removal Stage and not a DI Stage, so now I have to find one PDQ.
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
My RODI was from Osmotics and no issues at all and works a treat. Not that expensive

On the skimmer I was speaking to the guys at main fish shop in London and asked them what skimmer they would recommend. NYOS 160 without hesitation so I know which one I will be getting.

On the Apex I like the idea of monitoring everything that's all.

I've also just ordered a spare main pump at around £260 as been messing around with a cheaper one that doesn't fit. May have well got one in first place!
 

Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
RO systems are a bit like printers on your pc in that the refill cartridges can be so expensive that as soon as the quality drops off it is sometimes better to get a completely new system.
I am now producing RO that measures 0 on the meter. I am now planning my first water change!
I think I will be looking at replacing the return pump. Which one did you get?
 

SPR

Well-Known Member
RO systems are a bit like printers on your pc in that the refill cartridges can be so expensive that as soon as the quality drops off it is sometimes better to get a completely new system.
I am now producing RO that measures 0 on the meter. I am now planning my first water change!
I think I will be looking at replacing the return pump. Which one did you get?

I am getting the direct replacement from Red Sea to use as a backup, hence its expensive.

I am just returning the TMC 8000 Reef I purchased, not because there is anything wrong with it, but it's not a direct easy swop and after months of faffing about with adapters, hose to save a few £ I may as well have just got the red sea (sicce) in the first place. Luckily the LFS is giving me refund so I'll just pay the extra.

The Osmotics is not expensive and refills are ok as well. I think I've changed the main cartridges once per year and then DI granules around twice. In fact when I first started for the first 3 months I was running the RO with the filters still wrapped in plastic- didn't spot it until the readings went up so the DI resin must have been working on overdrive!!

Your first water change ? How many month!

PS. Have a look at the python water changer - it's good to get debris out of the sump and also rear circulation compartment. I use it every month or so but apart from that I empty water from sump into 2 30l brewing buckets and put the exact same amount back in.
 
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Nobbygas

Well-Known Member
I haven't done a single water change since start-up in early December. My plan is to go with the Triton Method, and the main reason for this is that I hate water changes ! The only reason for water changes is to replace elements that have been used up. If you are replenishing those elements with Dosing, then there is no need for water changes. When you think about it, you're adding 30-40 litres of fresh water (RO water) per week anyway with the top-up. The salt level stays the same, and the Dosing replaces the elements that have been used up! No need for major water changes.
I'm only going to do water changes now because I've fed so much crap into the tank from the poor RO water and the best way to clear it out is with some water changes. Hopefully this will be the only time I have to do this. I will do a few water changes over the weekend, and then next week I'll send a water sample off for an ICP test to at least get an baseline/indication of my water quality, and go from there.

If/when I replace the Return Pump I don't think I'll get a direct replacement from Red Sea. I understand there are quieter models out there, plus I like the ones that have a 'feed mode' where you press one button and it puts the pump into a 'feed mode', where it just gently pumps water instead of the normal full-blast, so not as much food is dragged down into the sump.

My RO unit was about 7 years old, and to be honest it was a pain in the arse trying to find a filter for the DI module. Plus, it only produced about 90 litres per day, which was really slow.
When I used to have a freshwater tank, I had a Python just like that. Now though, from the tank to the nearest sink is about 8 to 10 meters and I don't think the wife would be too happy with the tube running through the house.

I have opened the box of the NYOS 160 and gently stroked it
 
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