Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

[leebca]

Thanks for your support. I often wonder why the rumors, too. I think it is easier to believe the rumor than the truth that the hobbyists isn't doing the best job they can. The, 'blame something else' or 'it isn't my fault' type of syndrome.

I can assure you that the professional aquarists do quarantine and have public aquarium displays that are Marine Ich free.

 

[amc78cj7]

Would someone post pics of marine fish with ich please. I have run google image searches and they all are horrible pics and don't help me identify the disease.

Thanks.

 

[Woodstock]

Take a look at some of these pics: marine ICH - Google Image Search

 

[rlcline76]

A lot of careful thought was put into this sticky.
Which Burgess piece are you referring to, Lee? I tend to eat this kind of stuff up. And what articles on the matter would you consider to be of most use to the aquarist? Also, I have seen a raise in temperature suggested as an aid in the battle. Can you point me toward supporting literature?

I am not saying I do not believe you, but when I am helping someone else or just doing something for me I like to have something more than a forum to back up why I think this or that.

Some good stuff in here!

 

[naperenterprise]

Great thread! This has always been an interest of mine. And at times a nightmare.
This article will modivate me to stick to quarentine from now on...

Just a comment/question: If the DT gets MI, how the heck does one get all the fish out?

Does anyone have a good trick??

My fish hide in the rocks, and it seems impossible to get them out without removing everything from the tank...

 

[leebca]

There are many other threads regarding getting fishes out of the marine system. Rather than elaborate and let this thread stray, take a look at this thread, for instance: How to Catch Fish -or- Goin' Fisin'

 

[leebca]

There is so much literature rlcline76 that it is a project to pull it all together into a post. I will leave it to your own research. An Internet search will prove my point on the quantity. You can narrow it by including "Burgess" as a search requirement. Dr. Burgess also publishes comments, answers, and advice to aquarists in European aquarist magazines and writes articles for several periodicals. If you have a particular point in mind, please refresh my memory and let me know by PM the Burgess info you are specifically interested in. I may have that handy.

The sticky is the culmination of my own research at OSU, personal experiences, published works by others, conversations I've had with veterinarians specializing in fish disease, and continual education in fish maintenance.

Marine Ich is not as sensitive to a raise in temperature as the freshwater parasite. The conditions that affect the freshwater parasite (Ichthyophthirius multifilis) has often been mis-applied to Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). That temperature significantly shortens the life cycle on Marine Ich is one such mis-application. Temperature does affect Marine Ich, but not of any significance so that it can be used in treatment or that would shorten a proper quarantine process. In the case of the freshwater parasite, a rise in temperature not only shortens its life-cycle, but can lead to the parasite's death.

 

[johnmiami]

This was all alot to digest given I'm new to all this and only 3 months into with my 90g tank. Im really trying to grasp how to hospitalize all my fish for 6+ weeks when my hospital tank is only 10g and its use I thought was to only be occasional. I don't have the means to quarantine all of them at once and let the display sit for that amount of time. And I have a few territorial fish as well.

Are there any suggestions to not have to set up another 90g tank to quarantine all my fish? If I already had a fish die before from MI then based on all this info then its still in the tank specially if I see some fish scratching.

 

[lcstorc]

Yes your tank is infected. Depending on the fish and size you may need a larger hospital tank but remember a larger tank will require more medication and larger water changes. When Woodstock went through it I believe she had a 29g hospital tank where she treated the fish and then once the treatment was done she added a very large sump (like 100g or so) to help keep the water quality good for that length of time.
I believe Petco is running their $1 per gallon tank sale for anything from 20-75 gallons. Not sure but worth checking.

 

[leebca]

You do have another option. It requires the utmost patience on your part. That option to not add any marine life to the marine system for the next 11 months. By then, the Marine Ich will have become so less infective that, for all tense and purposes, it will be gone.

After that 11 months it then is gone and you want to perform proper quarantine on all incoming marine life.

Otherwise, if you don't want to wait and want to start adding things, AND you want a Marine Ich-free marine system, then getting the fish out of the marine system for 8 weeks minimum is what needs to be done.

You can sell the fish, have a friend or club member hold the fish, or even have others help you treat the fish for Marine Ich. The bottom line is that after the time, you allow no Marine Ich into the system again.

 

[W Churchill]

OK, I have Ich and have battled against it for nearly 6 months, thought I'd got rid, added new fish when I thought it had gone only to have it re-occur, I guess the fish that look free are simply going through the immunity stage and I can now appreciate what is happening after reading the article.

I'm quite happy to go through what ever I need to get rid, indeed I'm now up to 130 W of UV in my efforts so far, but am willing to go the quarantine road, but there are a few things that concern me.

First up the hospital tank. - I don't have a cycled tank ready and it would take a while to get one ready, but even when I do, it seems I would need another ready to transfer the fish after a few days. Unless I had yet another tank ready after a further few days, my only option would be to drain the first tank and fill it again ready for this next move, but then it wouldn't be cycled. I don't understand how I would achieve this without a whole room full of tanks.

When it comes to quarantining new stock I can see that one tank would do unless Ich shows up then I'm back to the hospital routine. Also I can only see how I could purchase new stock once every 8 weeks without having another quarantine tank or else I could potentially be introducing new Ich into a tank that is already half way through it's quarantine period and wasting my time.

I understand the cycle I just don't see how to achieve the cure.

 

[lcstorc]

I understand the confusion since you are missing a vital part of the process. You need to treat the fish for ich while they are in the hospital tank or when they are in qt. Effective treatments are either copper or hyposalinity. Both require very careful monitoring and testing.
If you have a sponge or other filter material from the DT you can use that to start cycling the qt. If you are not trying to fight an extreme situation I would wait for the tank to cycle.

 

[W Churchill]

Yes it seems I might have misunderstood, I thought the original article gave 3 treatments; reducing salinity, chemical and transfer, I thought the transfer was instead of chemicals.

 

[lcstorc]

I believe that can be done or at least I read about it somewhere. It just sounded like too much work and stress on the fish not to mention the expensive of all of the tanks etc.
I'll try to find the article.

 

[W Churchill]

So it's cycle a tank, move the fish to it, treat the fish and wait 8 weeks for my display tank to eliminate itself of Ich before putting them back.

 

[leebca]

Correct.

If you are unprepared with an already cycled hospital/quarantine tank, you can still begin immediately. Put water from your display system into the QT to start with. Then, you'll have to control the water quality (readings of zero ammonia and zero nitrites) of the QT by making two or three water changes daily (using fresh made-up water NOT water from the display system) and removing all wastes and uneaten foods daily or twice a day, until the biological filter starts.

You may want to read this for quarantine tank information: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums.../23584-fish-quarantine-process-step-step.html

 

[fishcasa]

Is there anything else that looks like MI?

I put six small fish in a new fallow tank yesterday without quarantining them. The fish did not show any white spots at that time. Last night and this morning they showed what looked like ich to me (white spots on their bodies and fins, some stress behavior), but this afternoon, the spots are almost all gone and the fish are swimming around like normal, eating, etc.

Could the spots just be caused by the stress of the move or water conditions?

 

[leebca]

If it is Marine Ich, then you're falling into the trap of thinking it went away, when in fact it has just moved on to the 'invisible' stages of its life cycle.

Read the top post closely; your answers are there.

There are few parasites that look similar to Marine Ich, but usually they are not quite true white and/or not quite the size of a grain of salt. You're the one that saw it so you have to ask yourself if they were white and the size of a grain of salt.

The answer may come in a few hours or days when the next wave of Marine Ich parasites show themselves on the fish.

 

[fishcasa]

Thanks Lee, it was wishful thinking on my part. I have them all in a QT now and have started hyposalinity treatment.

Thanks for the response.

 

[justreefnmon]

hi i noticed today that my hippo tang has noticable spots and seems very irritated. i guessing ick. he has been rubbing himself on the glass all day for while. i have had tanks set up for about 8 months now. i have had tang for 5 months no problems since. i also has 3 other fish ,coral,and clam.
from this article i only take out infected fish and treat him in seperate tank.
so queation is
1# do i only treat tang, or all 4 fish?
2# what do i do about my coral/and clam in main tank?
po4 is 2
ni =1
sal=1.022
thank you mucho i have learned ALOT from you guys and galse