Do I need anything else for a fish only tank?

[Taylor1983]

Hi, I've had freshwater tanks for years and have decided to start a saltwater tank I'm still doing a lot of reading, I just want to do the most basic you can do for now, fish and live rock only, maybe a couple snails (I happen to love my mystery snails in my freshwater tanks) So, this is what I have, please tell me if I NEED anything else? So the tank I'm using is a 37 gallon, I have a glass top, a heater, three different hang on the back filters I can choose from (I have lots of extra equipment from my freshwater obsession lol) I don't know exactly what they are off the top of my head, I will update later but one is an aquaclear, two are penguin filters, all are rated for larger aquariums, as for lighting, I have regular fluorescent two tube system that fits the 37 gallon, this is the one I plan on using, I also have a Glo T5 light fixture that adjusts to a larger size (it has 24" bulbs) that I COULD use, but I'm now using for a planted freshwater tank. I do plan on just having it bare bottom, I did think about buying the live sand that comes with water in the bag, but I do know from experience that bare bottom tanks are easy to maintain, besides, I know that I can paint the underside of the tank to look like sand if I wanted to I also have an API master freshwater kit, tests for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and PH. So, what I plan on getting is, a hydrometer obviously, salt and around 30-50 pounds of live rock (locally off craigslist) now is there anything else that I need? Do I need a powerhead? Oh, I did want to ask, do I cycle the tank WITH the live rock, or put the live rock in after I cycle it? The reason I ask is because there can be living things attached to the live rock, will cycling the tank kill them? I know all about the nitrogen cycle, and as for fish I only really want some clown fish and maybe a couple others. If there's anything else I need to get started please let me know!!! Thank you!!

 

[Coraljunkie]

Definitely cycle the tank with the rock in there. I'd also get a power head for some extra movement.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

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Sounds like you have a pretty good start - I would... add your lr and a raw deli shrimp... to start the cycle

 

[Taylor]

Ok thanks! I actually already have a powerhead (I have a ton of stuff from my freshwater tanks so this definitely helps!)

 

[Pat24601]

Lots of great questions, but I don't think I can answer them all. As far as what to get, I think you will need a skimmer and I didn't see you list that. I also run chemical media including chemi pure elite and purigen. I'm not sure where that would run in your set up.

You cycle live rock in the tank because the point is to get you live rock so it can handle the bio load of ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates. So, you need those organisms that do that to grow on your live rock.

I think you've got a good handle on directionally what you need. It's just a matter of fine tuning it a bit.

 

[frisbee]

For a FOWLR tank I wouldn't treat it any differently than you would a freshwater tank. You'll have to add some salt, (no doubt) top it off with freshwater to keep things level & just use the same husbandry you would otherwise.. Changing some water on a regular basis is no big deal, just make sure to remove as much crap/detritus as you can each time. It doesn't have to be so complicated sometimes. JMO, GL.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/feature/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

 

[Taylor]

Thanks! That's basically what I've been told, I don't want to over do it or do things unnecessarily, someone was talking about chemical filtration, can I just use carbon in the filter like my other tanks or is there anything else I should use in my filter media?someone earlier had mentioned something they use for chemical filtration (I can't remember off the top of my head what it was called) but a friend of mine basically told me it was a waste of money so I'm a bit confused, so really what I'm asking is, do I really need anything else in my filter other than what I normally use for my freshwater tanks? And I forgot to mention that I do have a protein skimmer, I just forgot to list it thanks

For a FOWLR tank I wouldn't treat it any differently than you would a freshwater tank. You'll have to add some salt, (no doubt) top it off with freshwater to keep things level & just use the same husbandry you would otherwise.. Changing some water on a regular basis is no big deal, just make sure to remove as much crap/detritus as you can each time. It doesn't have to be so complicated sometimes. JMO, GL.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/feature/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

 

[Pat24601]

Keep in mind I don't know much about FOWLR tanks so I may not know what I'm talking about. I'm assuming they are basically the same as reef tanks without the coral.

By chemical media I meant chemi pure elite, which is a bag that contains carbon and GFO to reduce phosphates. So, it replaces your carbon. I'm not sure where you'd run it in your set up though. Also I mentioned purigen, which is something that reduces nitrates. It's just a flat bag. I'm not sure where you would run it either. I would think in one of your HOB filters? But would the flow get forced through it?

Maybe I'm just wrong and talking crazy talk.

 

[Taylor]

Keep in mind I don't know much about FOWLR tanks so I may not know what I'm talking about. I'm assuming they are basically the same as reef tanks without the coral.

By chemical media I meant chemi pure elite, which is a bag that contains carbon and GFO to reduce phosphates. So, it replaces your carbon. I'm not sure where you'd run it in your set up though. Also I mentioned purigen, which is something that reduces nitrates. It's just a flat bag. I'm not sure where you would run it either. I would think in one of your HOB filters? But would the flow get forced through it?

Maybe I'm just wrong and talking crazy talk.

Thanks! You could be right I'm trying to get as much information as I can on what I need (thats why I'm here) So I'll try and find that out for sure! Do you know if it's necessary to run the heater and protein skimmer during cycling? I know it's not necessary to run at least the heater during cycling a freshwater tank, I just want to get all the little things right by the way, I'm a member of a couple different aquarium related forums, and I can say with all honesty that this one is by far the most helpful!!! You guys are awesome!

 

[ziggy]

I'm not sure if your fresh water test kit can provide enough measurement details like a saltwater kit can. I heard a saltwater test kit may be needed to know the exact value of the item and not the typical freshwater, good - no-good type of colors???

 

[Pat24601]

I didn't run my protein skimmer during cycling. There really isn't any bioload for it to do much anyway. Maybe others would advise different, but it worked fine for me.

 

[Taylor]

I'm not sure if your fresh water test kit can provide enough measurement details like a saltwater kit can. I heard a saltwater test kit may be needed to know the exact value of the item and not the typical freshwater, good - no-good type of colors???

Yes I know there are some things that my kit cant test for, so I do plan on getting the other necessary tests I need but thanks

 

[Taylor]

I didn't run my protein skimmer during cycling. There really isn't any bioload for it to do much anyway. Maybe others would advise different, but it worked fine for me.

Ok, I'm just trying to cut down on costs as much as possible (I already have 8 freshwater tanks set up... Yikes! Lol) so ya if it's not necessary then don't plan on doing it

 

[DaveK]

Thanks! That's basically what I've been told, I don't want to over do it or do things unnecessarily, someone was talking about chemical filtration, can I just use carbon in the filter like my other tanks or is there anything else I should use in my filter media?someone earlier had mentioned something they use for chemical filtration (I can't remember off the top of my head what it was called) but a friend of mine basically told me it was a waste of money so I'm a bit confused, so really what I'm asking is, do I really need anything else in my filter other than what I normally use for my freshwater tanks? And I forgot to mention that I do have a protein skimmer, I just forgot to list it thanks

I see where your getting a lot of advice. It's not bad advice, but I consider it to be very incomplete.

What needs to be understood is that keeping a SW system requires a completely different mindset from a FW system, In other word, you have to almost unlearn and relearn what your doing. While a lot of equipment is the same, there are often advantages to using something different. There is also equipment that is used in SW that is seldom used in a FW system. If it's any consolation, the same things occur for someone going from a SW system to a FW system. While the goals are similar, how you get there is usually very different.

One example is biological filtration. In a FW system the bio media is usually in the filter or the gravel if you use an under gravel filter. In SW the bio media is your live rock. That's just one example.

What you need to do is to get some background information so you'll be able to ask all the right questions. Not that the questions you asked were bad or anything, but you need to know how this all fits together.

Now you can do a lot of reeding on the net, but you will tend to find this very confusing because it's overwhelming and conflicting. I recommend you get a few good books on the subject and study them first.

Here are two I recommend -

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner

The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paleta <---This book has an especially good section on fish suited to someone starting off in the hobby.

BTW, there is no sin in getting them used off of Amazon, or similar vendor.

Getting back to your specific questions -

With chemical media you can reasonably go any way you like. Some rune with none at all, some use carbon, other like Purigen, others like Chemi Pure. There are also a host of other chemical media you might want to run. It's a wide open field. To add to the fun, some run chemical media only part time. Other people may differ, but if this were my system I'd run a good quality carbon to start with. You can remove it later if you don't need it, or change to something else.

As for test kits, you'll need new ones made for SW. Personally, I like Sailfret or Seachem for aquarium grade test kits. I'm not a fan of API here. I also highly recommend you get a refractometer over a hydrometer. A refractometer will be a lot more accurate over time, and you only need about 2 drops of water for a test.

Other areas to consider.

You may wish to rethink your filtration system. Hang on the back filters, while they will work, are often less then ideal in SW systems.

What is the make and model of your skimmer? There are a lot of good skimmers out there, but there is also some of junk out there. See what the people here think.

Lastly, your going to find that most LFSs for one reason or another are not experts on any type of advanced aquarium system. Trust but verify everything they tell you.

Good luck.

 

[StirCrayzy]

For FOWLR, skimmer is not reqd , and I don't think I would bother with chemical media's, unless you have an issue to control. You I'll not be able to get accurate test results using a FW kit, if you want to save $$ just check your LFS, many will check your water free.

Carbon is a good idea though.

 

[Pat24601]

For FOWLR, skimmer is not reqd , and I don't think I would bother with chemical media's, unless you have an issue to control. You I'll not be able to get accurate test results using a FW kit, if you want to save $$ just check your LFS, many will check your water free.

Carbon is a good idea though.

This is just for my own education, but why would a skimmer be less useful in a FOWLR than a reef tank? I completely believe you, but the logic isn't obvious to me.

 

[DaveK]

For FOWLR, skimmer is not reqd , and I don't think I would bother with chemical media's, unless you have an issue to control. You I'll not be able to get accurate test results using a FW kit, if you want to save $$ just check your LFS, many will check your water free.

Carbon is a good idea though.

I have to disagree with you here. While a skimmer is not an absolute requirement, it is so highly desirable, even on a FOWLR, that most people should have one.

You especially want one on a FOWLR system because most people tend to really stock such a tank to it's limit, and fish produce the most waste products of anything we commonly keep SW tank. You want to be able to remove as much of it as possible before the biological filtration needs to deal with it.

I also do not recommend depending on you LFS for water testing. They often tend to use test strips or not preform the test correctly. You also can't use them if you notice a problem late at night. Get your own test kits. You need not have everyone you can get your hands on, but everyone should have the basic tests. I don't think this is an area to skimp on.

 

[Pat24601]

On test kits, I'll mention that (at least the way I do it) the cost is not as bad as it seems and I would think would be even less on a FOWLR. That's because after a while you really develop a feel for your tank and you don't have to test as much (unless you add or subtract something). Well, that's probably not a very good official answer, but it's the way it works with me,

95% of the time when I do my testing these days, I have a really good idea what the test will show before I do it. I test about every two weeks just to be sure nothing is out of whack, but it almost never is. There have been times I've let it go for a month and parameters were still where I expected them to be doing my normal routine.

I know that's probably technically lazy, but it seems to work OK.

When I first started, I probably tested every 2 or 3 days. That was OK, though, because it taught me what was really going on in my tank.

Naturally, if something off is going on (algae outbreak, etc) then I test more often.

 

[StirCrayzy]

Dave/Pat

Since the OP was requesting the"needs" , it's my opinion, and experience, that a skimmer is not on that list. Since he's not running a sump, a hang on skimmer is the only option. They aren't as efficient, and can be a chore to keep tuned anyway.

My logic in skimming is, though there is an obvious benefit to particulate waste removal, the fish themselves are far less sensitive to waste buildup, and quite a few tanks, once stable do not reach dangerous levels with water changes alone. However there is a fine line, varying setup to setup, at which elevated waste and nitrate will cause algae issues.

I would recommend one if nitrate levels were causing issues, or if you have the desire to add complexity and equipment.

 

[ziggy]

Dave/Pat

Since this was requesting the"needs" , it's my opinion, and experience, that a skimmer is not on that list. Since he's not running a sump, a hang on skimmer is the only option. They aren't as efficient, and can be a chore to keep tuned anyway.

My logic in skimming is, though there is an obvious benefit to particulate waste removal, the fish themselves are far less sensitive to waste buildup, and quite a few tanks, once stable do not reach dangerous levels with water changes alone. However there is a fine line, varying setup to setup, at which elevated waste and nitrate will cause algae issues.

I would recommend one if nitrate levels were causing issues, or if you have the desire to add complexity and equipment.

I keep thinking back to this being... as simple and $ efficient as possible and using existing equipment. SO I think he wants to "get by" with as little investment as possible.. which is not a bad thing in enjoying a FOWLR aquarium. I say try the basic set up you desire with hanging filters etc but definitely add fish slowly so the ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate can build with time and change the bio load slowly i.e. 1 fish every 3 to 4 weeks so LR bacteria colony has time to grow as well.. A key point I wanted to make was with regard to a skimmer. I also agree for a basic simple set up a skimmer is not needed for waste removal but you then need to compensate for dissolved oxygen you are not getting and therefore add an air stone.

Starting small and keeping simple may be less frustrating and a good way to go provided you identify and address each issue as it comes up since you're not going with an "elaborate, traditional reefer set up"

Let us know how you're making out