Can you run a reef tank with a canister filter

[chuckyshoe]

Hello,

This is my first post. I have only been into this hobby for about 6 months so I am very new. I have a 90 gal tall, with about 150 lbs of very mature live rock which I got from my friends established tank, I have 2 tangs, 1 clown, 3 damsels, 1 blenny, 1 goby, 1 aero crab, 2 shrimps, 2 sallie crabs, 2 starfish, and a ton of hermit crabs 25 or so. As far as coral I have mainly soft, leathers, mushrooms, toadstool, green start polyps, a small brain, and some zooanthids. The tank has VHO lighting, the filter I am using is an Fluval FX5 that contains carbon, clearmax and some media for bacteria to collect, the protein skimmer is a dual back back and I also have the turbo twist UV sanitizer system running. I test my water weekly as well as do water changes 15 gal at a time. My levels have been perfect up until about a week ago when my nitrates went up to 30ppm. Everything in the tank seems to be thriving but when I went to my local store they told me that a canister filter cannot run a reef tank. I got that filter because the wet/dry I originally had was too loud for my wife and I. If the FX5 canister is not good because of the mechanical filters can I take them out and just put some live rock in it? or do I really have to go to a sump system. If anybody has any advice on this matter that would be awesome.

Thanks

 

[ChrisOaty]

Canister filtration tends to eventually become a nitrate factory as much of the filtration becomes anaerobic. Best thing you can do for any take is build a sump for it. It'll allow you to put away all of your equipment, add water volume to your system, and effectively separate your filtration from your display, meaning controlability. If you need help, theres tons of DIY sumps that include how-tos on plumbing. There's plenty of gurus on here that'd be more than willing to help you design something.

 

[SecretAgent]

Welllllllllll....I ran Eheim canister filters for a couple of years with my two tanks...125g and 155 cubed tank, and they both stayed crystal clear with those. I ran three on each, the 2217's, and ever since I took them off, my water hasnt been anywhere near as clear as when I had those on

I just hated the cleaning of them monthly. I wouldnt clean them more often because when I did, the water never stayed clear, but I found when cleaning them monthly, the water was always clear

Now I have a sump on both but my water is just before being crystal clear. BUt no matter, I still like the sumps better........WAY better

 

[chuckyshoe]

SecretAgent,

Did you ever have problems with nitrates? My FX5 keeps the water crystal clear and is dead silent which is great that is why I would hate to get rid of it.

 

[SecretAgent]

nope, no nitrate issues. No issues whatsoever. I used carbon and the ceramic media that comes with them, and the pads. In fact, I hardly ever bought the white fine filter pads because I would rinse them out and reuse them for about 6m at a time.

I dont have nitrate issues with the sumps either....Only downside to the canisters was seeing the green hoses hanging, but that was when the reef was still young and not much grown in to hide them.

I got the sumps because I wanted a refugium and didnt want to hang one on the tank. Just speaking for myself, I didnt dislike the canisters and they served me well, I would use them again if I had to.....

 

[chuckyshoe]

Thank you for you input, that makes me feel a little better. Any idea why all of a sudden my nitrates are going up?

 

[braeburn]

I would think if you are just starting the tank, that would be a part of the cycle?

 

[DaveK]

Can you keep a reef system using a canister filter? Yes you can, but you tend to have problems noted in some of the other posts. Mainly it tends to become a nitrate factory. Note that you have experienced a rise in nitrates, although there may be other sources. Your system is still new.

To carry this a step further the question should be, is a canister filter the ideal filtration for a reef system? To this I would say, no, it is not. There are a lot better alternatives.

On a larger tank, I would recommend using a berlin type sump, with a large powerful skimmer, and optionally, a refugium. You already have the live rock needed in the system.

If you want to remain with a canister filter, it needs to be cleaned at least weekly to keep it from becoming a nitrate factory. That ends up being a lot of work.

 

[bigpapaoffive]

:welcomera

I use a sump system for all the reasons mentioned above, I have used canisters effectively, however they were just a pain to clean for me

 

[Uslanja]

Good Morning chuckyshoe! We are certainly not experts regarding marine aquariums and still enjoying a steep learning curve! One thing that we have discovered is that many folks have success building tanks with different approaches and equipment. Your tank is 6 months old and has been running good so far. Something has changed and that is what we need to help you discover. If you wish to spend money on swapping out your canister filter for a sump, you will most likely encounter issues with that as well. So, if you would like some help to see if you can get your canister filter to work effectively, let’s give it a go!

Please list all of your water parameter. Do you test on a routine schedule and at the same time of day? Have you kept a log of your tank so that we can go back over time and try to discover a pattern change?

What is your maintenance routine; how often do you clean, what do you clean, how do you clean it and what do you clean with. (List the products by name please).

What food do you use, how much, how often and how do you prepare it for your tank?

What recent changes have been made to your tank? Have you added more life forms, are all your life forms still alive? (If you’re like us, you’re doing something new every couple of weeks, what are your last couple of changes or additions?)

We need to find the source of your nitrates and that shouldn’t take us very long! So, if you’re game to tackle this problem, let’s start with these questions and we’ll take it from there.

As we stated, we are not experts, so hopefully others with more experience, knowledge and ideas will join us along the way!

Dave & Tracy

 

[DrHank]

Your primary biological filter is your live rock and fortunately you have plenty to do the job. The canister filter adds some mechanical filtration but at the expense of producing nitrate. Since you had a wet/dry at one time (as long as you still have it) you have a sump.

My recommendation would be to remove all the media from the wet/dry and then reinstall it. There are ways to quiet it down. Next add a good skimmer to the sump, capable of handling twice tour system volume. At that point you should have a well functioning reef system (after it completes cycling).

I almost forgot, at this point you should remove the canister filter. Good luck.

 

[chuckyshoe]

Dave and Tracy

I do not test the water the same time of day each time, but I do test it once a week. My pH has been steady at 8.2-8.4, 0 ppm nitrite, 0 ppm ammonia, and now approx 30 ppm nitrate. I have not kept a log because I did not know that I should. I clean weekly with a python syphon sometimes stirring up the sand. As far as food I feed frozen shrimp and Tetra Veggie flake food once each at different times during the day. I have not recently changed anything in the tank and all the life forms are alive and seem to be happy.

Thanks

Joe

 

[Rhodes19]

+1 to what DaveK and DrHank said. Both good and sound advice. I ran a 29 reef with a HOB canister and a HOB skimmer. It worked but not optimally. For a tank your size a sump/fuge would be the way to go. The key to keeping nitrates down is to reduce the source they come from (food, dead live stock, over loaded bio system) or export them out of the tank (ie using macro algae, mangroves, or water changes). The quickest way to reduce them is by doing water changes. % water change = % reduction in nitrates, ie 60% water change = 60% decrease in nitrates. HTH.

 

[appleton]

yo chuckyshoe,i was just about to start a post when i saw yours.i ran a fluval304 canister and a eheim2229 wet dry canister for about 5yrs.never had a problem with levels.the cleaning on the other hand was a nightmare.i just converted over to a sump/fuge and it is sooooooo much simpler and less time consuming.i can relate to Secret Agent about water clarity but the ease of my sump/fuge is simply amazing.

 

[SecretAgent]

Well, I work from home and can dive into the cleaning of things pretty much whenever I want, which is often cause there is always something to clean, so the cleaning of my canisters werent really all that bad and not even time consuming, BUT, the sump is easier access and folks, you just wouldnt believe the hours I have spent just sitting down at my sump and pampering on it as I do the display. No, you cant do that with a canister.....Its like a whole other mini tank under there. Mangroves to watch growing, tiny life popping up every day.....I even watch my skimmer do its thing, and will sit for long periods of time watching it produce the nasty it is so well capable of producing. Its my thinkin time under there......=)~~

Yeah, a sump is a good thing, I just dont discount canisters if thats your poison. They both have their pros and cons I guess

 

[Uslanja]

Good evening chuckyshoe! There are two things that we would be looking at. The feeding amount of each type (frozen or dry) and the biological media in your filter. How often are you changing out the bio media? Why do you use the bio media?

Have you conducted a water change to get the nitrates down? I would start with that first. Conduct a 10% change every 3 days. Age your new water for 24 hours or so before using it ensuring good agitation.

Three things; 1) record your tank water parameters before the water change, 2) record the parameters of your new water and 3) record the parameters of your tank 1 hour after your change. (This will be the beginning of a great “cheat sheet” for use later on when you need to know how to effect specific and sufficient changes to your tank water). But, at the same time I would take the canister off line, remove all media and clean the canister with clean water ensuring to scrub everything away that you might find inside. Give everything a final rinse with RO water. Now you will need to decide what type of filtration you require. Install new media for the filtration you require rinsing it very well in RO water but leave out the bio media. I would suggest that bio filtration be conducted with your rock and sand, not the canister. Your canister is a good filter for clearing up particle suspension as well as running carbon or other types of polishing mediums. But this is the point where I disagree with the usually recommended canister cleaning schedule. I believe that your filter media needs to be cleaned every three days, every second day if you wish, but certainly no longer than 3 days. This is the same cleaning schedule that I have discovered works best for a sump sock as well. If your filter media is washable, then you will need several sets for changing out and allowing enough time to properly clean and prepare the recently removed set of media. We can discuss some good cleaning techniques and procedures if you decide to go with washable/regenerative medias.

Now we’re left with the food issue. Keep conducting water changes every 3 days until your nitrates are real low. Feed only fresh and frozen food ensuring a good rinsing with RO water. Once your nitrates are at an acceptable level, zero would be best, we can begin the resolution process. Continue feeding a variety of fresh and frozen foods only, ensuring that they are well rinsed before use with RO Water. Leave the dry food out of your feeding routine for the next few weeks while checking your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate daily. Run with this diet for two weeks and see what happens.

What do you have for water circulation in your tank? Do you turn the canister off when you feed and for how long?

Hope this start will show some quick and good results. Let us know what your readings are over the next 2 weeks. We think the problem and the solution will become evident fairly soon.

Dave & Tracy

 

[Uslanja]

Hi SecretAgent! You are absolutely correct about the sump/fuge being another place to play! We spend as many hours infront of our fuge taking photos as we do with the main tank! It brings us every bit as much enjoyment as the rest of our system. No matter what we use, it has to be kept clean, clean clean!

Dave & Tracy

 

[SecretAgent]

Its like having a mini tank under there, uh? =) I dont ever close my doors to the stand, so it is in view all the time. I like keeping my eye on the sumps as well as the tanks. Important stuff under them stands that need attention and when Im in need of some thinking time, I go sit in front of a sump and clean.

 

[xspeedrj]

My vote is yes, but I am not a coral purist. In my opinion many different systems can do similar things and you need to understand your expectations and abilities.

Live Rock can be a nitrate factory too ya know. I love how that term "nitrate factory" is thrown around so much to describe certain filtration techniques. If nutrients go in too fast, where do people think they go? Keeping the right maintenance process and schedule matched to your filtration and tank set-up is ultimately the real way to keep nitrates down (in my humble opinion). I know a "nitrate" basher who is a Berlin purest who lost most of his prized items to an ammonia explosion because of the death of an undocumented tank hitchhiker. So it goes.

I love modern cannister filters, but I respect Berlin, refugium, live rock and other filtration styles (with skimmers).

I will readily admit I am a skimmer fan-boy. Have to be careful because I will "skimmer" bash those that chose not to use them.