Aquiring the goods

I have finished the design for my 125g reef, now I need to start collecting everything that is needed. The plan calls for around 125# of rock. 115# of dry rock and 10# of live rock. What are the differences between the types live rock? Is one BETTER than another? Just because it is called premium does not make it better. I would like a reason to spend that extra $15 on a pound of rock. What ever type that is chosen stability is needed. The rock work will not be stacked up on the back glass, but rather stacked up the center of the tank. The reason behind this is to hide the return, and closed loop nozzles. On the lighting, I really like the features of the LED setups, but are they any better than T-5? I understand I can control the color, intensity, and create lightning storms. I want the fish to live in a place of piece, not freak them out and run for a place to hide. The tank is less than 20" high frame to frame. Will 6x36" T-5 be enough, or would 8 be better? Sand, aragonite, crushed coral, crushed sea shell, and a few I have yet to hear about. With me wanting a goby, fine sand is not a question, but what about the rest? I do apologize for asking so many questions in one post.
 

ReefingFun

Member
I'll try not to skip any of your questions, sorry if I do though!

1) Various sorts of Live Rock: There is not a big difference between sorts like the ones that come from the Pacific vs Caribbean ones, except that the Pacific ones mostly are more porous. I've read that more porous is often better for your bacteria to settle, but I can't confirm this to be 100% accurate. Other than that there is weight, one being lighter than the other so you will need more of it to gain the amount of pounds you want.
Marco Rocks has a very good reputation and I believe you can't go wrong with buying your dry rock there: http://www.marcorocks.com/

2) LED or T5: I gave up on trying to compare the 2 really. I'm personally happy with my T5's. You need to decide for yourself what you are planning to put into your aquarium and see what light is recommended. Most, if not everything is achievable with both types of light. However the only reason I would ever go LED is cause they normally run cooler than T5's and in my apartment this is really noticeable. Also from my own point of view, LED's are more flexible in what they can do compared to T5. If your electricity rates are fairly high where you're from, that's another reason to consider LED.

3) 6x36" T5 enough?: I can't really say yes or no on that tbh. I would recommend reading this: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-08/dw/
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
The base dry rock you looking is something where you look at size, shape and texture. The choose the one you like best. As for the actual live rock, there can, and I do emphasize can, be a big difference between live rock types. If you simply want to seed the dry base rock with bacteria, then any decent rock will do, and you can pick any decent rock, and it will be just fine. If you want something that contains a lot of additional live on it, then the premium live rock might be a better choice.

The trick here is that all too often plain everyday live rock is often sold as "premium" live rock. Make sure you are getting what you pay for. If it's from a LFS, you can see the rock and pick and choose. If it's ordered on the net, then order from a reputable supplier.

As for rock placement, don't just stack it. It's way too easily knocked down. It's unlikely the tank will be harmed, but it's a pain to deal with. Construct a framework of one type or another and place or attach the rock to that. You need not make one massive construct. Multiple small ones often work out better. As a note, live rock usually tends to be some what oval in shape, and with out some sort of framework, it tends to look like a pile of rocks. It's also tends to not be very stable on it's own, especially if you want the various caves and such people seem to like.

Lighting choices all come down to what you want to keep in the tank. If it's fish only or FOWLR then any old lighting will do. A couple of two bulb T5 fixtures will do fine. You could even use a pair of shop lights for this. If your going to keep corals you'll need much better lighting. LED lighting is the hot lighting system right now, but expect to spend some serious money for it. If your on a budget T5 is often a better choice because of the much lower initial investment.

Assuming that you have a standard 72" long 125gal tank, for T5 lighting you would typically use two 36" long fixtures, or three 24" long fixtures. depending upon the type of corals being kept, you would have between 2 and 8 bulbs over each section of the tank.

LED lighting is a bit different because there is no really standard size fixtures, and you have to look at each manufacturer to choose what you will need. Consider going with something modular. This allows you to add more modules if you need more light, but be careful LED lighting can get expensive fast.

My preference for the sandbed is fine aragonite sand, but not the super fine sugar sand. I'm not a fan of crushed coral, or sea shells. However, I wouldn't call someone wrong that use something else.
 

Choff

Well-Known Member
Rock is personal preference for how you want to scape it. The amount is a tough call because it depends on how dense it us and how many nooks an crannies. Marco Rock for example is very light and airy and is primarily what I use.

Led vs t5. I won't speak in terms of ability to grow coral, but t5s run hot and may cause you to need a chiller. They use more energy especially with a chiller. You have to replace t5s every 9 months at approx $20/bulb (+/- $5) and you will need 8 to 10 of them. Leds do have to ability to vary the strength and color to simulate the sun cycle. The knock is the start up cost and that it is a fairly new tech and is evolving rapidly. They will pay for themselves in 2 to 3 years though. Less if you don't end needing to buy a chiller. If I would have started with leds I would have saved $800 right off the bat. I recently converted from 10 t5s to led and have been very very happy.

Sand I like the Caribsea dry argonite special grade.

Sent using Tapatalk 2
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
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Led vs t5. I won't speak in terms of ability to grow coral, but t5s run hot and may cause you to need a chiller. They use more energy especially with a chiller. You have to replace t5s every 9 months at approx $20/bulb (+/- $5) and you will need 8 to 10 of them. Leds do have to ability to vary the strength and color to simulate the sun cycle. The knock is the start up cost and that it is a fairly new tech and is evolving rapidly. They will pay for themselves in 2 to 3 years though. Less if you don't end needing to buy a chiller. If I would have started with leds I would have saved $800 right off the bat. I recently converted from 10 t5s to led and have been very very happy.
...

I think your coming down far too hard on T5 lighting. While they do put out some heat, they are nowhere near MHs and the like. Very few systems using T5 lighting actually need a chiller. Also, you should get about 18 months out of decent T5 bulbs. I'd say your estimate for a payback period of 2-3 years is a bit optimistic. I'd estimate it's a bit longer.

Taking your number of $800 and spreading it over 3 years, you save an average of about $22.25 a month. That would be a best possible case. This also assumes that you do not need to replace or have repaired an LED module once it's out of it's typical 1 year warranty period. That savings can go fast. You can repair a T5 fixture with off the shelf parts, easily obtained. Perhaps you remember the original Solaris LED aquarium lighting. For various reasons the company went bust. All those people that spent a bundle for that lighting were left high and dry, and when their LED modules went, they were buying all new lighting. Granted this was the first, for real, LED reef lighting, but it does demonstrate what can occur.

Obviously if you have the money, good LED lighting is the way to go, but the OP was doing this on a budget. I'd estimate the LED lighting for a 125 would be about $800 to $2000, depending upon how many modules you needed and the vendor used. That's a lot of up front money. For a budget based system, I've got to say that good T5 lighting is generally your best all around choice.
 

Bearjohnson

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
RS Ambassador
I have to agree with DaveK on this. I have a 125 and I light it with 4 Aqua Illumination LEDS. There are a few others such as Apollo LEDS that you can get away with running 3 units on your 125. I have Apollo's as well that I used for my 150 so I know they will cover 2' each. If you are on a budget then hands down T5's are the way to go. Just my $.02 worth.
 
Believe me i would love to be able to do LED, the cost is my only obstacle. even the diy kits are far more than i had expected. i have been looking in the different t-5HO fixtures on the market. i can get dual 30" fixtures for less than a quad 30" fixture. the idea is 4 dual fixtures, each having own timer. would 6X 10,000k and 2x actinic 420 be enough. total is 248 watts. i know it is not about watts per gallon but unable to find lumen specs. with each fixture on a timer they could be cycled to start and shut off at 15 min increments. not all coming on at once or going off at once
 
with the macro rock that is "airy" and light. would that mean i could use less as far as weight, and still get the same amount of surface area, as say fiji rock?
 

nivek

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
RS Ambassador
with the macro rock that is "airy" and light. would that mean i could use less as far as weight, and still get the same amount of surface area, as say fiji rock?

Just be sure to check where the rocks are obtained from..example lava rock etc. Some of them are a no-no for a reef tank.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Believe me i would love to be able to do LED, the cost is my only obstacle. even the diy kits are far more than i had expected. i have been looking in the different t-5HO fixtures on the market. i can get dual 30" fixtures for less than a quad 30" fixture. the idea is 4 dual fixtures, each having own timer. would 6X 10,000k and 2x actinic 420 be enough. total is 248 watts. i know it is not about watts per gallon but unable to find lumen specs. with each fixture on a timer they could be cycled to start and shut off at 15 min increments. not all coming on at once or going off at once

If it's a traditional 125 gal tank, and it's 72" long, you most likely want 36" fixtures.

Going with multiple 2 bulb fixtures will let you add more later. Some can even be ganged so it looks like a 4 or 6 bulb fixture.

Sometimes you just want to control the lighting on only 1 or 2 timers. A timer on each fixture can be a pain to setup and change.
 
gang lights are not that important. each fixture could be different looking and that would not matter. all the lights will be mounted to the top of the canopy. i can always daisy chain lights together that is not a big deal. it is a traditional 125g tank at 72" long but a small section will be blocked off with a divider plate to house plumbing and pumps.
 

reefer gladness

Well-Known Member
Good arguments pro vs con for th LED's and T5's. I don't think you can go wrong with a good T5 setup but I am a big fan of DIY'ing my own LED lighting.

It doesn't get any more modular than a DIY LED setup, if an LED goes out you spend $5 for a replacement and takes 10 minutes to replace, $25 for an LED driver and 5 minutes to replace. And you can build an LED system as good or better than the big name manufacturers, they pretty much all use the same components we get off the shelf for our projects.
 
i was looking in to the 3w white and 1w for everything else. but on a 72" tank it is still a lot of money for each module i need 22 white, 4 red, 2 green, 23 blue, 4 uv, then all the drivers. would still be over $ 275 just for the leds per module.
 
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