A Different Kind of Reef

[PootyTang]

So it's time to start a new tank.

It's getting close to 4 years now that I've had a 125 gallon reef, and for 2 of those years I also had a 30 gallon reef.

I've decided now to start a new tank, it will be a 29 gallon FOWLR tank, but I'm also planning on including a set-up from instantreef.com. In a couple of weeks I'm going to set everything up and run clean water through it for a few days to clean everything, but in the meantime, I have a few questions regarding FOWLR care.

Up until this point, I've only ever kept coral. In a way, that kind of made things easier; the more you can test for, the more you can control. My first question regarding this new set up is what do I actually do? The reason I'm going with FOWLR is because I'm hoping to minimize maintenance. What supplements (if any) does a FOWLR tank need? I'm hoping to not need to treat with calcium and alkalinity if possible.

For now, I've modeled what the tank should look like with the instantreef setup, I appreciate any advice.

 

[redneckgearhead]

In a FOWLER regular water changes are all thats needed. I dont believe fish "use" any of the minerals or supplements in our tanks. They get all their nutrients from the food they eat.

 

[Eric]

For a fowlr you don't need to add or monitor calcium, alk, or mag since there are no corals there is no need, keep tabs on your PH, ammonia, Nitrite, and nitrates as these are things that can effect the fish.

A fowlr is a pretty basic setup the main focus imo would be the filtration as it is a small tank and I imagine will get stocked to the limits you will want the best possible filtration to remove the fish waste and excess food before it becomes miracle grow for algae.

If it were me I would run a good skimmer, a hang on back power filter such as an aquaclear for carbon and if you choose to run filter pads they will need to be changed every 2-3 days, I would also run a phos ban reactor for added chemical filtration and flow. I see I forgot to mention WC but it's been taken care of above I would still run all the above filtration this will bring your maintenance to a bare minimum.

Obviously there is no special lighting needed so you save there but use that on creating a top notch filter system.

 

[PootyTang]

Thanks for the quick responses! I completely agree that filtration will be my main consideration for the tank, and I'm still debating how I want to do it. I have been thinking that since I have 2 Rena Canister filters (the smallest one), I might set both up, with one purely as a sponge filter and the other containing the Rena brand nitrate removing rocks and phosphate removing beads. I've used those products before and I've fount them to be very helpful. Is there any obvious disadvantage to having 2 filters hooked up that I'm missing?

 

[PootyTang]

So I took a trip to Big Al's here last night to see what they had available for lighting. I already have power compacts, but in the interest of making everything as cheap and work-free as possible, I'm hoping to get a hold of some LED lighting. So at Big Al's I noticed that they have 2 variations of the marineland LED lights. One is the basic wire-stand system, the other has the lights built into a black hood where the lights are concentrated in the middle.

Has anyone heard anything about these lights? Any advice? I think I may wait a little while given how fast this new business is growing, but I was hoping to get some more information on maybe how strong these lights are now, etc.

 

[redneckgearhead]

Im not sure I would spend a ton of money on lights. If your not going to have corals theres really no need. Just some regular ole flouresnt lights would work. Right?

 

[Nowellsy SNR]

Good luck with the build look forward to seeing the finished product

 

[PootyTang]

Actually, the LEDs I'm looking at were only $80 CAN at Big Al's

 

[StirCrayzy]

So at Big Al's I noticed that they have 2 variations of the marineland LED lights.
Has anyone heard anything about these lights? Any advice? I think I may wait a little while given how fast this new business is growing, but I was hoping to get some more information on maybe how strong these lights are now, etc.

Previously I ran 30"JBJ PC fixture, but at 128W and $35 in bulbs per year, i thought i could do better.
I was drawn in by the Serious wattage savings myself so i ordered an 18-24" Reef Capable version of the marineland family.
Since i only have a couple corals, mostly FOWLR , this seemed like a good option. The price was a bit high, compared to T5HO fixtures.
My tank is 24" Deep and 30" wide, so i was concerned with the light not getting to the bottom and out to the sides.
So i plugged it in and it looked bright, but over the tank, i noticed the light was very focused straight down.
It left a bit of darkness on the sides, and wasnt as crisp as i hoped at the bottom. (i shouldve ordered the 24-36" version to be fair, but didnt like the $ hike per bulb)
Overall it is a good Color temp, but a bit yellow for my liking.
I paid the return shipping, and bought a Nova Extreme T5HO 30" instead ($75 cheaper) . I am much happier with the output/coverage.


For Your case, i agree with Scott... Dont spend a ton of money if your only after aesthetic appeal, the fish dont care much about Watts Per Gal, or anything like that.
T5HO fixtures are a good value, and give you the option to add a few Low maint. softies.

PS
If anyone at Marineland finds this thread, it wouldnt hurt to...
1. Make a wider spread of the existing LED bulb count, or at least Refocus the lenses.
2. Separate cords/controls for Actinics & 10K, or maybe built in timer.
3. swap in a couple 12K's for the 10K's to round out the color
and I imagine the price will drop as the manufacturing process progresses.

 

[DaveK]

Since you doing a FOWLR, the lighting can be minimal. A fixture with a single PC bulb will work just fine. Also, PC lighting is considered "last years model" so you can sometimes find good prices on it.

While I'm usually not a fan of canister filters on SW systems, they are likely to be your best option for a 29 gal tank. It's a smaller tank, so it's not cost effective to invest in a sump, and the current crop of hang on tank filters, IMO, leave a lot to be desired. If you do use canister filters, be sure to clean them often, at least weekly.

I don't think a FOWLR is that much less work. It is more forgiving with water quality issues, since there are no corals, and the lessor light will not create an instant algae bloom if nitrates and phosphates get a little high.

 

[PootyTang]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I think we're going to keep the PCs we have now and just see how things go for all the reasons you've mentioned above.

I agree with you DaveK that as far as the large maintenance issues like water changes and filter maintenance (I've learned how to keep up with regular canister filter maintenance, it's all I have on my 125 gallon reef so I know how unforgiving it can be), FOWLR isn't all that different from reef. The big difference for us is that our school may require us to travel for a week or two at a time and we want regular upkeep to be easy enough for a friend to just throw in some food every couple days. That and the added stress of worrying about water params all the time was something we can live without right now.

On that note, does anyone know the importance of nitrates in a FOWLR system? I've heard different things from different people. If nitrates bother fish, I'll certainly keep them low to keep the fish happy, but if (like I've heard on a couple of occasions) that fish don't even notice nitrates below 100 ppm, I'm not going to worry as much about that. I can imagine nitrates would still have a big impact on algae growth so that's also something to consider. Any thoughts?

 

[StirCrayzy]

On that note, does anyone know the importance of nitrates in a FOWLR system?
Any thoughts?

Mine generally fell between 5 ~ 30ppm depending on how many hours i get stuck at work.
I have seen spikes of 50~60ppm with no apparent damage, but if at all possible, i keep under 10.
and my WC routine is 25% per 3 weeks unless i see reasons for otherwise (10+ppm).

 

[PootyTang]

I'm thinking about heading out this coming weekend to take a look at some of the instantreef setups. Before I go, does anyone have any experience with these? They seem like a great idea to me, but I'm wondering how you prevent coraline from growing on them?

 

[PootyTang]

So the tank will be here in a couple weeks, and in an effort to figure out where to put it, I've taken a second shot at rendering some of it in SketchUp.

This is my first time using SketchUp, but so far I'm enjoying it. The next step is to put in the intake/output for the filter and a heater.

 

[redneckgearhead]

They seem like a great idea to me, but I'm wondering how you prevent coraline from growing on them?

HMMM good question.........How much live rock are you going to run? Without the live rock you would be fine, because thats how the coraline would get introduced into the tank. Correct? Maybe get some base rock so that the Coraline is never introduced to the tank?

 

[PootyTang]

I'm not really sure what the plan is. The instantreef site suggests putting liverock in for the bacteria, but I suppose I could just use base rock, I'm just trying to figure out how you seed the tank with bacteria without introducing coraline at the same time. Or do you have to introduce bacteria? I've only ever done this with cured live rock.

 

[StirCrayzy]

I'm not really sure what the plan is. The instantreef site suggests putting liverock in for the bacteria, but I suppose I could just use base rock, I'm just trying to figure out how you seed the tank with bacteria without introducing coraline at the same time. Or do you have to introduce bacteria? I've only ever done this with cured live rock.

You can use Base rock, and some of the off the shelf bacteria additives (many available) ,Ive never tried them personally, but i think they would do what you are looking for.

I am not a Coraline growth expert, but i keep kH 90ppm,Ca2 30mg/l and i never get the takeover, just a bit on the back wall, and Powerheads.

 

[mbdave]

I thought I saw someone mention that alk is not important, I totally disagree with that, keep an eye on your alk and keep it, "what I would" around 10-12kh it can drop with the waste from the fish and then your ph will soon follow. I like adding some real live rock to FO tanks you get allot of goodies for some of the fish to graze on also watch the cal that will keep the coralline going and well it just looks good
Good luck,
Dave

 

[PootyTang]

So just to clarify, I'm trying to prevent coraline from growing. Those bacteria additives sound like they're what I'm looking for to seed some bacterial growth without having to introduce coraline. I plan on monitoring pH very closely, and if I find it's starting to fall off, then I may consider controlling alkalinity. However, I feel like regular sandbed cleaning to mix up the calcium carbonate should go a long way to keeping that pH where I need it.

Other than that, does it seem reasonable to think then, that without dosing calcium, I shouldn't have to worry as much about coraline at all? I suppose it may be a moot point now, given that it looks like I can use base rock and off-the-shelf bacteria, I can keep coraline off the reef structure.

 

[PootyTang]

I know that so far this thread isn't particularly captivating, it would probably be a little bit better if I actually had the tank here, but it's coming in 2 weeks. In the meantime, I wanted to ask the question that always seems to spark the best discussion; what should I put in it?

As far as a stocking list, I'm a little bit lost right now, I've never had so many options for my tank. On one hand, I would like a bit of a predator tank. A dwarf golden moray and a dwarf lionfish, or a frogfish, I'm not quite sure. On the other hand, I've always wanted a bicolor angelfish, and I thought I could go with that and a wrasse and a hawkfish.

So this is the dilemma I'm facing right now, and actually I was wondering if anyone knows anything about frogfish and could tell me my chances of keeping one with something like a bicolor. On top of that, how are the frogfish for training to eat frozen foods?