125g long reef

i know i can get all the info i need on the inter net from reading articles and what not, but would rather read it from actual ppl. from your experiences both good and bad. i am a cabinet builder so a custom stand to house all the plumbing and equipment is not an issue, but what exactly what all i need is. here are the tank specs. 125g long 72"L x 18.5"W x 19.5"T. i have a 20g long tank for refugium. split in half long wise. one side for algae growth, the other side for farming pods. each side will have own plumbing and flow control valves. i dont know how big of a sump i should have or how big the main pump should be as far as gph. how big of plumbing for overflow. what size skimmer i should get, is bigger better? i like a clean tank, but i dont like to see a bunch of tubes or power heads inside. the setup will be visible on both long sides and one short side of the tank, with all equipment below. the tank is not drilled, and would like to keep it that way. if i am forgetting anything let me know. thanks
 

Bearjohnson

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
RS Ambassador
I have the same tank so I'll try and help you if I can.

1. IMO a 20g sump is a little small for that tank but you can make it work. You'll need to install back-flow preventers on your returns going back to the tank. It's not a question of if power or a pump fails, it's a matter of when. Your 20g will overflow when it does happen. When it comes to sumps, the bigger the better but a minimum size that can handle the back-flow from the main display tank.

2. Main Pump - some people like a ton of flow through the sump, others not so much. Personally, I'm in the middle. My main and only return pump is Sicce 5.0 1321 GPH[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].
[/FONT]They consume less power than the mag pumps and are whisper quiet. You can see them here if you're interested. Sicce Syncra Silent Multifunction Aquarium Pump

Although they are providing flow in the tank, I don't calculate them into my equation when figuring out how much flow I want or need. I rely on my power heads to handle water movement.

3. Over-flow plumbing is another preference to each his own. - I'm running 2- 1 1/2" lines down to my sump. One main and one just in case or to handle extra flow of the main is running full. 1- 1 1/2' gravity fed PVC line will flow roughly 2100gph.


4. Skimmer - On skimmers you can spend as much as you want depending on your budget. A decent rule of thumb on sizing is about 1-1/2 (give or take a few) times the manufacturers recommendation is a good start.

Hope this helps a bit:)
 

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Good stuff bear. Just to point out that the 20 his his refugium.

Look to do a 40 breeder or a 55g tank for petco for the sump
 
i have the design of the refugium up in my albums. img 1 shows how the 20gal long tank will be split and where the baffles will be. img 2 shows the pod farm side of the fuge and baffle placement. img 3 shows the nute export side of the fuge, where the fast growth algae will be contained. each side of the fuge will have a water input directly from one of the 2 overflow tubes. to control the flow of water the pod farm side will have a control valve. the algae side will have the water flowing down thru the algae . both sides will share a gravity feed to the sump. if you see anything that needs to be changed before i begin building this please let me know.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
fyi if you want to add them to your thread, just right click on them & copy the img url - then add it in this syntax xxxyoururlherexxx[/ing]
[IMG]http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/members/new2reefing-albums-refuge-design-picture24762-20g-fuge-pod-farm.jpg
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I must fist say that the design pictures of your refugium are excellent. In looking at your refugium design I do see several issues. As pointed out by Bearjohnson, it's way too small for the size tank you plan to use it on. By the time you get all the baffles in it, and considering that you can only fill it about 3/4 full the amount of water in the refugium proper will only be about 8 gal. It is also a very complex design. Since your a cabinet maker, I do not doubt you can build it, but it will be a difficult thing to clean. That's a lot of surface area and a lot of small tight areas to work on for cleaning and maintenance.It's also a lot of points of failure. Over time joints fail, parts break and so on, and you'd need to tear down the entire refugium to do a decent repair.

I suggest you use two tanks with one for macro algae and the other for pod production. I would also only use one set of baffles. Baffles are installed to keep micro bubbles out of the system. You only need to do that for the return pump area. It's not an issue for water coming into the refugium, because it's not something you normally view. Another alternative would be to use one larger tank and combine the pod production and algae growing areas. The are not incompatible.

All this begs two additional questions -

What do you plan to keep in the main display tank? Depending upon what that is, you may or may not need a refugium to grow macro algae or to produce pods. No point in doing something that is not going to provide much benefit.

What is the rest of the filtration system going to be like? Generally a refugium alone is not enough to maintain a large tank.

As for sump size, it depends upon what you are planning to do with it. Usually you want it as big as possible, but you will need to allow for other factors. If you use a skimmer, you will need to decide if you want to mount it inside the sump or external to it. This will also apply to the return pump. Outside means the sump size much be reduced.

For flow through the filtration system, you want a minimum flow of about 5 to 10 times the main tank volume, so for a 125 gal tank the flow should be 600 to 1000 gph. Remember to account for head loss in the pump. It's quite a bit, especially with the powerhead type pumps. You will usually need additional circulation inside the tank. This can be done with circulation pumps inside the tank or closed loops. Yes, your going to have to add these even though you don't want the stuff in the tank. Planning is critical here. If you plan things properly, the pumps and/or tubes will be hidden. You will end up doing something for circulation, it's just a question if you will plan for it in advance. Your just not going to get the circulation you'll need from the filtration system alone.

Skimmer selection. Manufacturers tend to be "very optimistic" with their ratings. Choose one that is rated for a tank size about double what you have. Expect to spend some money on a quality product. Beyond that, most of the skimmers you'll be looking at for a tank that size, will work just fine.

To gravity feed a sump or refugium, you will need some for of overflow on the main tank. By far the best ones are installed internally and do require that you drill the tank. This is by far the best alternative, even though in your post you mention you don't want to do it. If you are going to use an external overflow box, I recommend getting one from Lifereef. They cost about twice as much as the "Brand X" ones sold by most of the online suppliers, but "Brand X" has a lot of inherent design defects that will lead to floods. See Lifereef here (offsite) - prefilter box, siphon box, overflow box, siphon overflow, Eurobrace, Euro-brace, Euro-tank
 
thank you for the input. the only reason i was doing the split fuge design was i was told that each type of fuge neeeded different water flow. that i could not push to much water thru the pod farm or it would push them in to the main tank to fast. as far as the main tank, exact species are not known, but the wife said if i do a salt water i need a dory and nemo. i am figuring at least 75# of live rock and some hard coral, sea anemone, feather dusters, and then some. skimmer selection is not important me as far as in sump or external. the stand i will build will have plenty of room no mater what i decide. i am already planning on an external pump that wil push around 1500 gallons at 6foot head height. the over flows i will use are custom. i have used a smaller design for about 2 years on my 55 gal fresh water. i will have 2 made from 1 1/2 pvc. the over flow pipes will sit behind a black plate in the main tank. black plate is divided in to 3 sections and each section has a grate to allow water flow thru. 1 at the bottom 1 at the middle and one near the top. the water then passes over the back plate in to a smalll section of the tank where the overflows tubes will be. i would post add the pics to my album but it says i am over my space limit, and i dont use any img hosting sites.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Additional comments based upon your additional posts.

Both macro algal and pods should have a comparatively slow flow through the refugium. You only want a small fraction of the water going through it at any one time. Since you plan about 1500 gph, as part of the filtration system, you'd only want about 200 ghp or so going through the refugium. This is usually best fed using a T and valves off the main return pump. I am assuming that your planning a separate sump and what we are seeing in the pictures is only the refugium.

I looked at the overflow design you plan to use. I see a couple of potential problems. Like any overflow that goes over the top of the tank it depends upon the siphon action being maintained if the power fails. This is going to be difficult to do with 1 1/2" pipe. If you go this route be sure to test it extensively. The other factor is that it's going to be very difficult to clean. Unlike FW systems, SW systems will build up all kinds of growth inside pipes, even if it's dark. You can also have all sorts of things like hermit crabs, snails, and even fish entering the overflow. One way or another you need to be able to take it apart so you can clean the insides. Using 2 is an excellent idea here, because you will have some backup in case one fails

I know you don't want to do it, but seriously reconsider drilling the tank. It will give you a lot less trouble long term. Also, you'll have a lot less floods.
 
i have used this style for almost 2 years and even when the power go out the flow stops when it lowers to the top of the tube. when power is restored and the pump starts to fill the tank, the water level raises over the tube to begin draining. never had a siphon break, unlike my old hang on tank skimmer box. that was once a week event. as far as drilling the tank, the bottom is tempered so i cant drill that. i have night mares of it being drilled wrong and end up with 125 gallons on the floor and a lot of dead fish. i will be using a separate sump, but the way that will be set up is determined by the equipment i decide to get. i am hoping to have the main tank design done this evening, and start working on the stand design. i will redo the design of the fuge and input the new size tank in to that. i will then be able to find out how big of a sump i will able to fit and be accessible.
 
this is the tank design as of right now. the tubes on the bottom of the tank are return line. after reading about the groth inside the pipes i have descided to remove the under substrate lines. the back plate on the divider plate is removable via nylon screws.
 
it has been a bit since i posted on this thread, been busy taking all the knowledge and putting in to the design. i will do a break down so you can see all the design not just the finished.
file.php
twin 1" overflow tubes.
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behind a custom filter plate.
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plate and overflow in place.
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40g sump and 55g refuge. since i am going to be planting shoal grass and turtle grass i decided on the flow thru sand bed.
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i am going to run 1 closed loop at around 1700gph to enter dt from 4 nozzles. may have to upgrade tubing to 1 1/2 http://www.tankoutlaws.com/download/file.php?id=1249 top view of plumbing. all plumbing will be run on the tank frame to minimize light blockage.
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the stand will have a total of 6 doors accessible for cleaning, not counting the canopy.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
right click on the pic in photobucket & paste the url like this...

and it will appear :dance: very nice !

plumbing1.jpg


here the syntax with the 1st bracket [ removed so you can see it exactly

IMG]http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv298/stitch80/125g%20reef%20design/plumbing1.jpg[/IMG]
 
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