Deep Sand Bed or Not?

[Bearjohnson]

I've been thinking of setting up my 40B which has been sitting on the floor since I purchased it.

I figured why not do a little research regarding substrate and the benefits of a DSB.

I was wondering if their are many of you that prefer a DSB and what benefits it has on the system. Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons etc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have tanks with both, deep and shallow. After years of experience I can say I prefer the deep. And, I've learned that in between is the worst 2-3" is a no-no.

 

[BigAl07]

I prefer a DBS over shallow (shallow <1", deep 4" or >4") and Mike is correct in that the middle area >2" but <4" is the No-No zone...

With that being said.. unless I change my mind my next system is going to be Bare Bottom... partially because it just looks awesome and partially because I don't like the look of a DSB up against the glass after a year or so. Also keep in mind that my next system will have an approximate Fuge volume of 100 - 150 gallons and in that fuge will be a DSB.

 

[Mayja]

Here's a quick article I found that discusses DSB and the benefits of anaerobic bacteria that grows there: DSB or No DSB?

 

[Bearjohnson]

I prefer a DBS over shallow (shallow <1", deep 4" or >4") and Mike is correct in that the middle area >2" but <4" is the No-No zone...

With that being said.. unless I change my mind my next system is going to be Bare Bottom... partially because it just looks awesome and partially because I don't like the look of a DSB up against the glass after a year or so. Also keep in mind that my next system will have an approximate Fuge volume of 100 - 150 gallons and in that fuge will be a DSB.

Why not just add a fancy piece of trim molding or recess the tank in the stand to cover the glass viewing area of the DSB?

 

[theplantman]

I have a deep sand bed as well which eats up a lot of volume in my 34 gallon tank. I used a mix of black and white sand, heavy on the black to ease the look of the bed against the front of the glass. The main thing to remember going deep, is if you are one that likes to vacuum the substrate when doing water changes, be careful not to vacuum too deep. You do not want to disturb the lower regions like that or you could potentially release a gas pocket.

 

[Bearjohnson]

I have a deep sand bed as well which eats up a lot of volume in my 34 gallon tank. I used a mix of black and white sand, heavy on the black to ease the look of the bed against the front of the glass. The main thing to remember going deep, is if you are one that likes to vacuum the substrate when doing water changes, be careful not to vacuum too deep. You do not want to disturb the lower regions like that or you could potentially release a gas pocket.

I do a lot of vacuuming currently when I do a WC but my substrate currently is less than 2"

Would their even be a need to vacuum a DSB? I'm wondering if the maintenance on a DSB would be less of a chore?

 

[Mayja]

Would their even be a need to vacuum a DSB? I'm wondering if the maintenance on a DSB would be less of a chore?

I don't vacuum mine (I did ONCE but that was when I was combatting cyano, which was months ago). Between the snails/starfish/crabs digging through it and the bacteria doing its job, my sand is looking great! Well... on the surface. The side view is a whole other story - lol!

 

[theplantman]

I vacuum the top 1/2" of mine just for the benefit of having a clean looking tank and to help ease the build up of nitrates. As you know, in small tanks water chemistry changes fast so anything I can do to help stabilize it, I try to do.

 

[Bearjohnson]

Would this substrata work well for a DSB?

http://www.marinedepot.com/CaribSea...Reef_Aquariums-CaribSea-CS0020-FISSDS-vi.html

Or

http://www.marinedepot.com/Caribsea...uariums-CaribSea-CS1905-FISSLS-CS1940-vi.html

 

[theplantman]

The ocean direct looks really fine, if it were a sump I would say go for it but if its a display I would use a heavier grain. My sand was caribsea as well but I used a blend of 1-5mm sands and added some crushed shell for jawfish building material.

I used their special grade reef sand 20lbs, Hawaiian Black 20 lbs and 10 lbs of their crushed coral.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My personal preference would be the live special grade. It's what I use and every time I've had clams and who know what else grow in it and spawn and so on. I found a 2 1/2" clam shell floated up this morning. Hope I don't have something eating my clams.

Another note on DSB: My 55 gallon is 8 1/2 years old and never requires extra maintenance. It's always perfect and I attribute that to the DSB. And the hundreds of micro brittle stars and the Lettered Olive (also 8 years old), etc. The sandbed literally moves after the lights go out. So, I do know a little bit about micro-fauna in sand beds, contrary to what's been posted about me earlier.

 

[Mayja]

That's exactly what I use, Mike. And after lights out my rocks and DSB are crawling with tons of life!

On a side note, my cerith snails laid eggs on the glass yesterday!

Carry on.

 

[Bearjohnson]

My personal preference would be the live special grade. It's what I use and every time I've had clams and who know what else grow in it and spawn and so on. I found a 2 1/2" clam shell floated up this morning. Hope I don't have something eating my clams.

Another note on DSB: My 55 gallon is 8 1/2 years old and never requires extra maintenance. It's always perfect and I attribute that to the DSB. And the hundreds of micro brittle stars and the Lettered Olive (also 8 years old), etc. The sandbed literally moves after the lights go out. So, I do know a little bit about micro-fauna in sand beds, contrary to what's been posted about me earlier.

Live special grade but what size?

 

[BigAl07]

Why not just add a fancy piece of trim molding or recess the tank in the stand to cover the glass viewing area of the DSB?

That's an option for sure but from an aesthetic point it's not one I'm ready to deal with.

I think a healthy DSB can be very maintenance free. Except for when I first moved over to Salt Water from Fresh I had never been one to VAC my sand except when I was also battling CYANO. I rely on a healthy population (and variety) of organic sand sifters to take care of keep the sand turned over in a natural and fairly safe manner.

As Mike stated a healthy DSB does literally "Come to Life" after lights out. It's a whole other world down there

 

[Mike Johnson]

I do a lot of vacuuming currently when I do a WC but my substrate currently is less than 2"

Would their even be a need to vacuum a DSB? I'm wondering if the maintenance on a DSB would be less of a chore?

Exactly, I have never vacuumed my sandbed. I'd be afraid I'd be sucking up the good stuff.

Special grade is the size. It's a little larger so it doesn't blow around. After it settles for awhile the top will be little shells. I've had baby hermits use those tiny shells for their first shell.

 

[DianaKay]

So, I've been wondering what to put in my Lifereef Refugium when I get it....would a DSB work in it? Not sure how many gallons or how big it is yet. All I know for sure I want to grow in it is all kinds of pods & some macro algae.

 

[DaveK]

Here's a quick article I found that discusses DSB and the benefits of anaerobic bacteria that grows there: DSB or No DSB?

In my opinion, the article referred to contains a lot of bad advice. Ignore it. Here are the main areas I find fault with -

"... recommends a thickness of approximately 1-3/4 to 2 inches ..." See posts by others here.

"... The recommended depth of the sand in a DSB is about 5" ..." This is a bit high. 4" is usually plenty. Remember more sand gives you less water.

" ... The DSB in the Live Sand Filter depends upon "sand stirrers" ..." This is not correct. Plenty of people run DSBs with out "sand stirrers".


"... if you don't have the sand stirrers to consume detritus and uneaten food, as well keep the substrate free of gas pockets, the sand can turn into a . Number two is that, without the nitrate consuming plenum, there is really no point in including a DSB in your system. ..." A DSB is only going to become a
"toxic gas factory" in the most extreme conditions. It's very unusual. I've run DSBs for years, and not had this issue. So have many others. At his point, I'd have to say that very few DSB people use a Jaubert/Plenum. It was the hot item for awhile. Now days it's almost never talked about, and there is are a lot of questions about it doing anything at all. Typically if something really works it becomes very popular in the hobby.

 

[Frankie]

Shallow sand bed guy here.
2-4" is preferable for me.
I'm not one to do refugiums and such. I rely on my rock and filtration system.
I never liked the look of a bare bottom, (nasties tend to hang there) and dsb's are bombs waiting to happen in the long term.
I like the look of sand though and it has great surface area for beneficial bacteria.
So I use shallow.
My preferred sand bed is the special grade. The size is perfect for the hobby.
Never "live sand"
It will become live soon enough, and again, i'm not counting on it for filtration. Just aesthetics.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Forum Runner

 

[DaveK]

So, I've been wondering what to put in my Lifereef Refugium when I get it....would a DSB work in it? Not sure how many gallons or how big it is yet. All I know for sure I want to grow in it is all kinds of pods & some macro algae.

Now there is the key issue. What exactly is going to be done with the refugium?

Since you want pods and macro algae, I would use a rather chunky, about 1/4" or 3/8" pieces, substrate about 1" or so deep. The larger chunks give pods plenty of places for pods to grow, and the larger pieced give macro algae a place to attach.

If you wanted the refugium for nitrate reduction, they I'd use a fine sand, a little courser than sugar sand.