Dry shipped live rock

[burntricer]

the email i sent

I understand that it was shipped in a styrofoam container, however it was not damp or wet. I was totally, 100% willing to accept the additional shipping charges. However, it took over a month to get the rock shipped out. While on your website, it gave multiple options for shipping. And one of the options was for livestock, and said $6.00. Obviously I chose that method.

I called you the very next day, you said we would hash out the details shortly after, again I was willing to work with you on them.
You said you would call me the next week. I did not receive an email, phone call or anything. And for a couple weeks, I simply could not get a hold of you.

When I finally did (after opening a post on reef sanctuary) you stated that actual shipping would be $10 more then the original, and due to the delay I asked that you cover it. You agreed. Another week went by with no word on shipping. So I called, and well apparently, you forgot.

So I called to remind you of what happened. You said it was "on the truck and ready to go" but then, after not mentioning it, at all for the past month, that your livestock rate was significantly higher for shipping. Again, I understand that it was a mistake in the first place. But really, if it was that huge of a difference, why wouldn't you quote me the full amount in your original email.

Also I understand the fact that live rock does have some significant die off. However, I have never received any in this fashion, it has always AT LEAST had paper towel, soaked in salt water over it. You say you repeatedly advised me of the proper shipping method, I am curious as to where I was when this was done. As I was advised that Canada Post was just fine for shipping, by you the first time.

Let me also note to you, that you did not contact me, at all. Yes your website states "Ottawa Inverts will hold your order and contact you immediately." Again, I was NOT contacted by you. I was always the one who made the effort to contact you, via phone or email. When you said I argued with you, let me make something totally clear. I did not, in any sense of the word try to tell you how to ship my package. I called you this past Monday, you were very confrontational, and condescending, you told me essentially that I was wrong. I know Liverock is considered Livestock, never would dispute that. I was simply stating that you quoted me a price VIA email, that you would cover all extra shipping charges.

Lets take a look at what you sent me


I am going to calculate shipping costs for you, but I just wanted to see if you were interested in more rock first than the 10 lbs that you had ordered.

Here is a shipping quote from Canada Posts to you for 10lbs of live rock via Canada Post

Rate Summary
Base Price $15.32
Coverage* $ Update $0.00
Fuel Surcharge $1.03
Options $0.00
Tax $0.82
Total $17.17

This is where you quoted me shipping, which would be $11.17 over what I paid.

I suggested you cover it, due to the delay. You gladly agreed.
So thinking about that, why would you pick a sub par shipping method, to quote me? Again, I was 100% willing to work on the shipping amount with you, and could only go by what You, quoted me.

So let me make this totally clear. I never refused to pay the additional shipping as you are accusing me of doing. You can see from my Paypal dispute, what it is I want, due to the fact that I can get base rock (in the same condition as this rock) from my LFS for $2/lbs. 10lbs@$2/lbs = 20.00

If you feel the need to discuss this on the open forum, feel free.

Here is the link.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...live-rock.html

- Lyle

[PFoster]

Lyle,
The rock was shipped in a thick styrofoam container to ensure it stayed at a reasonable temperature and humidity while in it's 3 days in transit on it's way to you.

When this order was initially placed we contacted you and let you know that we did not have the liverock in stock and offered to either a) refund your order completely or b) contact your when we had the liverock in stock you chose option b), to contact you once the liverock was instock.

When we spoke again while we were at MACNA we let you know that our liverock order had been postponed until after MACNA and we would contact you once the liverock came instock and again offered to either a) refund your order completely or b) contact your when we had the liverock in stock. Again, you chose option b).

The weather turned cold and because of the 3 day shipping option you chose we let you know we didn't feel that it was the best shipping option again for your rock, again encouraging you to chose the overnight shipping option for livestock. Being as you were not interested in this option we let you know your rock would be shipped this past Monday where it would not be waiting in a warehouse over a weekend.

For those of you enquiring, we shipped out to Lyle in a sealed styrofoam cooler - we ship liverock out in regularily to clients in overnight methods. We took the rock from the vat, placed it in the cooler, added some extra water and sealed the container so that it was air tight, although there would have been no water visible to Lyle upon opening the box, I find it hard to believe that the rock was bone dry.

You have asked when you were told that it costs $85 to ship livestock via overnight air - every time we spoke to you on the phone, up to and including right before it was shipped out again we advised that this is the method prefered. You were given a shipping quote from Canada Post after you refused to upgrade to overnight shipping and yet we still encouraged overnight shipping until it shipped out. As a retailer, why would we choose to open ourselves up to this type of situation - this is the ONLY circumstance where any livestock has NOT been shipped via Airline or next day UPS. Even in next day UPS we advise that this is not our recommendation as it is not optimal for livestock. Please note that when we contacted you regarding this shipping you argued that LIVEROCK should not be considered LIVESTOCK and therefore would not pay $85 for overnight shipping and wanted standard delivery service from Canada Post applied to this order of Liverock.


As a direct importer of Walt Smith Premium Grade Live Rock I can guarentee you it ships to us from Fiji in Wax boxes, no paper and crabs are still crawling around on it. Which is why we pay for a direct flight to us, not sea freight. Standard air freight shipping from Walt Smith typically takes 5-8 days to Canada, but we pay an additional fee so that we can receive it in approx 30hrs to ensure the life remains on the rock and encouraged you to do the same.

As we did not correspond via e-mail I have no way to proove when we first told you that overnight shipping was the option we prefer (although again it is on our web-site as the method used for shipping livestock) the last conversation I had with you before the liverock was shipped out was in the presence of a collegue who did hear me ask if you were sure that you didn't want to ship it overnight as Canada Post is NOT our prefered method of shipping for livestock.

Choosing to keep the rock AND filing a claim for the rock with Paypal is NOT an honest way of doing business. As other members here have posted, the rock will experience die-off, but there is still life on it.

Additionally, there has never been a $6 livestock shipping option on our webs-te. The rate was a table rate for a special on drygoods (which has now been removed) as we informed you of the first time we spoke on the phone. Please see the below link for our livestock shipping policy;
Ottawa Inverts

[PFoster]

We have already contacted you via e-mail and offered the below offer but will post it here aswell;
If you are unhappy with your rock we will take the rock back and provide you with a refund for the livestock (not a normal policy as it also states on our web-site). If this is the option you would like to choose to take, we would ask that the rock is shipped back to us tomorrow via Canada Post, in the same Styrofoam cooler, properly sealed.

[nightfire76]

like them to replace it? if so you can see if they would send you a that replacement,plus something extra to cover the extra shipping you had to pay to send it back to him

[djrufio]

Originally Posted by nightfire76

like them to replace it? if so you can see if they would send you a that replacement,plus something extra to cover the extra shipping you had to pay to send it back to him

don't forget the cost of pain and suffering

[nightfire76]

lol i dont think this is a law suit lol

[BigAl07]

No law suit.

That's a fair offer from O-I.

*edited FAR to FAIR as it was intended*

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Now it's a whole mess of he said/she said.

Though there are two very black and white stories, there is a gray area in between in which I think the truth resides. Perhaps both parties are somewhat guilty and should accept responsibility for their actions or inaction and work to a reasonable solution?

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2

Now it's a whole mess of he said/she said.

Though there are two very black and white stories, there is a gray area in between in which I think the truth resides. Perhaps both parties are somewhat guilty and should accept responsibility for their actions or inaction and work to a reasonable solution?

Very well worded. I think we need a

[nightfire76]

cant we all just get along?

[PFoster]

We are more than happy to take back the rock from Lyle, as we have already stated, but ask that it is shipped asap in our styrofoam cooler.

There has already been a paypal claim filed by Lyle before seeking resolution with us to this situation. We are willing to work towards a resolution but feel what Lyle is seeking is unfair.

Lyle is expecting a reimbursement of $4/lb on the rock and free shipping. This rock is not base rock and do not feel that Lyle paying $2/lb of rock and receiving free shipping is a fair resolution to this situation and have asked that Lyle ship the rock back to us today and provide us with a tracking number and we will provide him with 100% refund.

We are also willing to re-ship new rock out, but this new rock must be shipped same day delivery or overnight service as per our web-site shipping policy.

[BigAl07]

Seems like 2 fair options....

[PFoster]

Just wanted everyone to know that we are still actively seeking a resolution with Lyle.

Unfortunately since his last post here on Thursday and his paypal claim Lyle has not responded or contacted us.

We have offered Lyle a 100% refund on the rock and asked it was shipped back to us on Friday in the same container it was shipped out. It is now the end of Monday and we still haven't had a response from Lyle since Thursday.

I can only assume that Lyle is happy with the rock and would like to keep it as he is unwilling to return it to us for a 100% refund. We do not consider it fair for him to choose to only pay us $2/lb, not pay the shipping and keep the rock.

I hope talks resume - and we will keep everyone updated as this was where Lyle wanted to converse.

[burntricer]

Yes Patrick, i have decided to keep the rock. I need as much rock as i can get to help with bio filter. I will cancel the refund request on paypal

[burntricer]

resolved. please close thread.