"puffer-poisoned" water?

[jeskremer]

"puffer-poisoned" tank?
I have had a 39 gallon tank going for over a year now. I had an ocellaris clown, two blue damsels, a saddle puffer, hermit crab, and chocolate chip star.

Two weeks ago I changed the charcoal out of my canister filter. I have twin compact fluorescent bulbs and changed one to a 50/50 actinic/daylight and the other is full daylight. I did this so I could add my 2" bubble tip anemone at the same time.

A week ago I introduced a 3-4" yellow tang to the tank. No problems until I awoke 20 hours after placing him into the tank. The clown and tang were lying "stunned" on the bottom of the tank. The puffer was barely moving behind the live rock. The damsels were nowhere to be found.

I immediately touched the tank and clown and turned the light on. The tang began to slowly move and the clown "awoke" and started swimming lethargically. I changed out 4 gallons of water. Everyone seemed AOK until the second morning...the tang had died.

The tank has been doing fine all week. I sent the 3" three stripe damsel to the pet store because he had terrorized the first tang and I thought he may have been part of the trouble with stress in the tank. I introduced another yellow tank last night. The puffer went to sleep...straight up and down as always. The tang was swimming around normally - checking everything out. I introduced him with the lights off. This morning, the clown was stunned again, the tang and puffer were lying dead on the bottom.

Two blue damself, hermit crab, clown, and starfish seem fine again. I changed our nearly 1/3 of the water.

Could the puffer have "released" a toxin? I know they are not supposed to be able to. Is there any way to test for this and what should I do to remove toxins from the water effectively?

Jesse

[Gina]

I found this information in our knowledgebase about puffers. Hope it helps!

Poisons

Often you hear about the poisons found in many of the species of pufferfish in the aquarium trade. Not to lesson anyone trust in my expertise, it was this sort of "possibly dangerous" mystique that turned me towards raising and caring for the Tetraodontidae/Diodontidae family. When I started out raising the freshwater and brackish varieties of puffers I was so nervous about any sort of puffer poison mishap that I would use plastic bags, rather than nets, to catch the puffers, and even purchased a pair of gloves. This was all just to avoid any sort of direct contact. Now, I had read info stating that puffers couldn't sting you, it was a poison that did you in, and only if you ate the little thing. But, it still didn't stop my brain from thinking "what if...” The somewhat fad of pufferfish hadn't even begun yet, and I was quite surprised and the lack of information on the web. But, since I'm writing this article after years of raising puffers, it seems that my fears were a bit unfounded. In fact, I've seen many people that could pet their puffers as if they were a cat or dog. None of them have ever died after doing this, so I believe that it's safe.

The toxin found in pufferfish is called Tetraodontin, which gets its name from the puffer, even though this toxic substance is found in many different species around the world. Creatures like the rough-skinned Newt, and many varieties of frog like the Harlequin frogs of central America, all have this located in the skin, thus making ingestion the only way of getting poisoned. But other creatures like the Blue-ringed Octopus, which delivers the same toxin, uses it's bite to do the job. As a special note, I would like to add in that this toxin is the main ingredient found in Voodoo Zombie Powder from Haiti. Also, this same stuff is responsible for over 150 human deaths last year in Japan. This is due to the Japanese tradition of eating of raw "fugu" pufferfish. Many people wonder why a person would risk eating something that could kill you. Is it just for the thrill, or is there another reason. People that I have talked with that have tried eating puffer, say that you gain an odd euphoric feeling after eating it. Your body gets a tingling sensation in the extremities, and you have a unique “high” sensation. Scientific reason for this; you are actually getting ultra small doses of neurotoxin, that is stunning your body and nervous system. Sort of takes the mystery and awe out of it now doesn't it…

As I mentioned above, there was very little info available to the aquarist in the past. Luckily websites are popping up more frequently as these impressive fish are finding their way into peoples homes. But, at the time I'm writing this there is only one book truly devoted to pufferfish, and it only deals with freshwater and brackish varieties, "The Puffers of Fresh and Brackish Water" by Dr. Klaus Ebert. Like the title suggests it doesn't deal with marine puffers at all, but it still is an interesting book to add to anyone's collection. As for other books dealing with Marine puffers, for the time being you will have to make due with the small sections in many of the general marine fish books on the market.


If you think that there is a poison in your tank, I would do frequent water changes and add charcoal and filters to your sump, if you have one.
I don't know alot about puffers, hopefully someone who has some experience with them will chime in.
Good luck!

[Cougra]

If I'm understanding this correctly, your fish are suffering shortly after introducing a new fish to the tank. Have you checked for ammonia spikes? What kind of filtration do you have in the tank? Perhaps the system couldn't handle another large messy fish (Puffers and tangs both produce a lot of waste).

How does your clownfish normally sleep at night? I had one that always slept on the substrate, one that floated sideways on the surface and a couple that hide in the rocks. The two that slept on the surface and substrate gave me a mini anxiety attact each morning until they became alert again.

I highly doubt that the puffer released any toxins into the tank, however I would recommend that you use a polyfilter in the tank as soon as possible as the polyfilter is very efficient at removing toxins.

Another thing I can think of is that the oxygen levels in the tank are low for some reason. Tangs are very sensitive to oxygen levels and would be the first to show signs of oxygen deprivation by being lethargic however they should be swimming at the surface and seeming to gasp for air if this was the case. If it happened at night after lights out you may not of have notices this behaviour from them and they could have sufficated by morning.

[mps9506]

I honestly think the problem is that you have a clown fish, puffer, tang, damsels, bubble anemone in a 39 gallon tank.
What type of filtration are you running?
I have to say this combonation of fish is asking for bad things to happen.

[Witfull]

im still not quite awake, and only halfway through a cup of coffee, but my brain is thinking....if i recall correctly, dont these puffers secrete a thin slime when they sleep similart to parrotfish? if this is the case this could be the reason.

[FragMaster]

Aslo called :Valentine's Sharpnose puffer, the sadle puffer fish (Canthigaster valentini) dose produce a thin layer of toxic chemical on it skin.
BUT it does not release this into the water colum unless it is dead and even then it has to reach a certain level of decay tostart releasing its toxin.
MOST Puffer fish have a poisonous gulblatter, toxic skin, or spines thatdeliver some sort of poison. Even freshies and brackish, But you have to have a direct contact with your blood to get infected with it.
I have kept every thin gfrom a dwarf frehwater puffer-to an MBU freshwater and from a figure 8 brackish to a rare black arothron. Even a blue ringged octopus LOL! (WHICHWAS STUPID!!!!!!!!! They crawl out of the tank!!!).
I have never had one release anything into my tank while living.
I have even kept just about every type of ray! LOL!!

What concerns me more is the addition of the anemone.
What sort of lighting are you runnig? (in watts and ballast type)
BTA's WILL releas toxins intoyour tank AS THE DIE and after they die.

[Craig Manoukian]

Bummer experience, and I agree that that is generally way too much livestock for a 39 gallon tank. Puffers and tangs require much bigger living quarters. Overstocking can lead to stress and that can cause puffers to poison the water column.

Welcome and hang in there. Go slow and let it grow!

[gussy]

Not the puffer definitely.

[Dragon Wrasse]

I agree that there was to much or wrong combination of live stock for a 39 gal. I think that the Tang's were chasing the other fish into the BTA. Seems that all Fatalities occured after the introduction of the Tangs and after the BTA was already in the tank. Or it could have been the butler in library with a candle stick. Sorry! couldn't help myself....I do feel bad about your losses, I hope you find the cause soon.