Puffer Toxin ?

nanoreefsrcool · 03-06-2008, 07:52 AM

do puffers kill off the whole tank when they die ?

thanx

tbittner · 03-06-2008, 08:21 AM

Most likely, yes. If they release their toxin they will kill everything unless you act quickly enough to remove it, and then pull everything else out and put it into a QT. Then run LOTS of carbon.

BigAl07 · 03-06-2008, 08:30 AM

From Wikipedia Online

Quote:

Tetrodotoxin is an exceptionally lethal poison. Tetrodotoxin is approximately 1,200 times deadlier than cyanide. In animal studies with mice, 8 μg tetrodotoxin per kilogram of body weight killed 50% of the mice (see also LD50). It is estimated that a single puffer has enough poison to kill 30 adult human

What I noted as interesting is that 100% captive bred & raised puffers are ZERO toxic as they have never come into contact with the "Right" bacteria to create this toxin. That's NOT something I would rely on though... my luck they would have "accidentally" come into contact with it and I'd be deathly sick.

mps9506 · 03-06-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

What I noted as interesting is that 100% captive bred & raised puffers are ZERO toxic

Where was this Al? I am not aware of captive bred or raised puffers.

I was also under the impression that this toxin is NOT released from the body when the puffer dies. Maybe if you left it in their to break down etc. But it isn't actually released from the body when the puffer dies.

BigAl07 · 03-06-2008, 10:02 AM

That's the key part. The majority of the toxins are locked in the organs of the fish but once they start breaking down they will release it into the water. In my mind if the dead fish is removed in a timely manner there's little chance of "nuking" the tank barring a wound or something.

I got that from the Wikipedia site.

BigAl07 · 03-06-2008, 10:03 AM

just a quick link...

Tetraodontidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mps9506 · 03-06-2008, 10:39 AM

The entire part about the captive raised puffers not having it, I don't understand. I've yet to see a captive born or raised puffer.
And in the discussion part of it the reference is another wiki article that doesn't even mention it

One of the reasons I don't like Wiki.

tbittner · 03-06-2008, 11:01 AM

Ask Heinz (hma) about a puffer passing on and polluting a tank. He has recent knowledge/experience on it. That is not to say that it's gaurenteed to happen each and everytime though, because I don't know.

nanoreefsrcool · 03-06-2008, 04:49 PM

thanx cuz i was thinking of getting a puffer but i really didnt want to gamble, say if i leave for school at 8am then the puffer dies at 10 am and im not home till 4 and it broke down and all my other fish are dead. and also if im not home for a few days and vice versa. what do u think ? what are my odds

nanoreefsrcool · 03-06-2008, 04:49 PM

also wats the best way to cycle a fish only

tbittner · 03-06-2008, 11:02 PM

Are you going to have LR in it also? If so, then there isn't any difference as far as cycling the tank.

reefjitsu · 03-07-2008, 01:20 AM

There are CB puffers. I know that there are a few FW, and Brackish puffer species available as captive bred. My dwarf puffers are CB. Many of these puffers are considered poisonous if wild caught, but CB are said to be safe for reasons already noted in this thread. Not too sure about marine puffers being CB.

nanoreefsrcool · 03-07-2008, 08:23 AM

yea im probally goin to have 50 lbs og base rock and 15lbs of live to seed the othre rock will a t12 be fine.

phillsy4 · 05-24-2008, 12:16 AM

I had a 6 inch porcupine die in my tank (parasites)"rip" porcy. It didn't kill my damsels i had left from cycling i did get an imediate ammonia spike of about
.25 my tank is a 150G with 110 pounds of live rock

johnmaloney · 05-30-2008, 08:53 PM

I don't know anything about dead puffers in a tank, all I know is that you have to be careful when eating them because if you puncture the poison sac and eat the fish you die. But, I know that barracuda only get poisonous if they are older, because their body builds up toxins from the fish they eat, until they themselves become toxic. The young ones are safe to consume, though, because the toxins are in low doses. Along the lines of what Big Al said that kind of makes sense, maybe the puffers haven't yet built up the toxin, and we don't feed that kind of food in a tank. Anyway I thought the post was interesting and I thought I would chime in.

03-06-2008, 07:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
nanoreefsrcool Midas Blenny Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112 View Gallery Karma Komment	Puffer Toxin ? do puffers kill off the whole tank when they die ? thanx __________________ 90 gallon Oceanic Tech waiting to be set up 48" Outer Orbit fixture (2)x 150w HQI (2)x 130w Actinic PC 10 Gallon Micro Reef 17lbs Fiji LR (2)x65 watt PC (one actinic, one 10,000k day bulb) 10lbs Carib-sea LS Filtration: Hagen 300gph HOB, Prizn HOB skimmer Flow: Maxi-Jet 400,aqua clear 10 Livestock: Green Clown Goby, hermits and turbo snails ANTI WALDO ANTI BIO BALLS ANTI CARRIBEAN BRISTLE WORM[/b]

03-06-2008, 08:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? Most likely, yes. If they release their toxin they will kill everything unless you act quickly enough to remove it, and then pull everything else out and put it into a QT. Then run LOTS of carbon. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

03-06-2008, 10:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? That's the key part. The majority of the toxins are locked in the organs of the fish but once they start breaking down they will release it into the water. In my mind if the dead fish is removed in a timely manner there's little chance of "nuking" the tank barring a wound or something. I got that from the Wikipedia site. __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

03-06-2008, 10:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? just a quick link... Tetraodontidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

03-06-2008, 10:39 AM	#7 (permalink)
mps9506 They misunderestimated me Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,143 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? The entire part about the captive raised puffers not having it, I don't understand. I've yet to see a captive born or raised puffer. And in the discussion part of it the reference is another wiki article that doesn't even mention it One of the reasons I don't like Wiki. __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

03-06-2008, 11:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? Ask Heinz (hma) about a puffer passing on and polluting a tank. He has recent knowledge/experience on it. That is not to say that it's gaurenteed to happen each and everytime though, because I don't know. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

03-06-2008, 04:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
nanoreefsrcool Midas Blenny Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? thanx cuz i was thinking of getting a puffer but i really didnt want to gamble, say if i leave for school at 8am then the puffer dies at 10 am and im not home till 4 and it broke down and all my other fish are dead. and also if im not home for a few days and vice versa. what do u think ? what are my odds __________________ 90 gallon Oceanic Tech waiting to be set up 48" Outer Orbit fixture (2)x 150w HQI (2)x 130w Actinic PC 10 Gallon Micro Reef 17lbs Fiji LR (2)x65 watt PC (one actinic, one 10,000k day bulb) 10lbs Carib-sea LS Filtration: Hagen 300gph HOB, Prizn HOB skimmer Flow: Maxi-Jet 400,aqua clear 10 Livestock: Green Clown Goby, hermits and turbo snails ANTI WALDO ANTI BIO BALLS ANTI CARRIBEAN BRISTLE WORM[/b]

03-06-2008, 04:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
nanoreefsrcool Midas Blenny Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? also wats the best way to cycle a fish only __________________ 90 gallon Oceanic Tech waiting to be set up 48" Outer Orbit fixture (2)x 150w HQI (2)x 130w Actinic PC 10 Gallon Micro Reef 17lbs Fiji LR (2)x65 watt PC (one actinic, one 10,000k day bulb) 10lbs Carib-sea LS Filtration: Hagen 300gph HOB, Prizn HOB skimmer Flow: Maxi-Jet 400,aqua clear 10 Livestock: Green Clown Goby, hermits and turbo snails ANTI WALDO ANTI BIO BALLS ANTI CARRIBEAN BRISTLE WORM[/b]

03-06-2008, 11:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? Are you going to have LR in it also? If so, then there isn't any difference as far as cycling the tank. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

03-07-2008, 01:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
reefjitsu Plate Coral Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Magic City Posts: 742 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? There are CB puffers. I know that there are a few FW, and Brackish puffer species available as captive bred. My dwarf puffers are CB. Many of these puffers are considered poisonous if wild caught, but CB are said to be safe for reasons already noted in this thread. Not too sure about marine puffers being CB. __________________ You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You got to keep on hoping and cover your ears and go "blah blah blah blah"- Futurama

03-07-2008, 08:23 AM	#13 (permalink)
nanoreefsrcool Midas Blenny Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? yea im probally goin to have 50 lbs og base rock and 15lbs of live to seed the othre rock will a t12 be fine. __________________ 90 gallon Oceanic Tech waiting to be set up 48" Outer Orbit fixture (2)x 150w HQI (2)x 130w Actinic PC 10 Gallon Micro Reef 17lbs Fiji LR (2)x65 watt PC (one actinic, one 10,000k day bulb) 10lbs Carib-sea LS Filtration: Hagen 300gph HOB, Prizn HOB skimmer Flow: Maxi-Jet 400,aqua clear 10 Livestock: Green Clown Goby, hermits and turbo snails ANTI WALDO ANTI BIO BALLS ANTI CARRIBEAN BRISTLE WORM[/b]

05-24-2008, 12:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
phillsy4 Bryozoan Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 45 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Puffer Toxin ? I had a 6 inch porcupine die in my tank (parasites)"rip" porcy. It didn't kill my damsels i had left from cycling i did get an imediate ammonia spike of about .25 my tank is a 150G with 110 pounds of live rock

05-30-2008, 08:53 PM	#15 (permalink)
johnmaloney Midas Blenny Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 123 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Puffer Toxin ? I don't know anything about dead puffers in a tank, all I know is that you have to be careful when eating them because if you puncture the poison sac and eat the fish you die. But, I know that barracuda only get poisonous if they are older, because their body builds up toxins from the fish they eat, until they themselves become toxic. The young ones are safe to consume, though, because the toxins are in low doses. Along the lines of what Big Al said that kind of makes sense, maybe the puffers haven't yet built up the toxin, and we don't feed that kind of food in a tank. Anyway I thought the post was interesting and I thought I would chime in. __________________ Here is a link to my sponsored forum on reefsanctuary. Here is a link to my website, we do clean up crews and macroalgae.

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