stocking advice: flame angel?

[Ntruder]

I have a very peaceful community in my 75g FOWLR setup. I currently have:
-5 blue/green chromis
-2 ocellaris clowns
-2 banggai cardinals
-1 yellow tang
-1 hippo tang

All are very young, especially the tangs. Its very new, the full tank has been running for a little over a month. There isn't a ton of rock in there, but I'll probably end up with somewhere around 150lbs. (I have about 50 now, another 50-60 curing) There are no corals currently and won't be in the near future, so don't worry about that.

Granted, these fish haven't been together very long, but they all get along wonderfully. They are all very peaceful. There is absolutely zero chasing, nipping, etc. I want to keep it that way. I had 5 yellow tail damsels that were used for cycling, but I got the blue hippo tang, they attacked him, chased him, nipped at him, and were just mean. And simple economics shows that when the $5 fish attack the $75 fish, the $5 fish go back to the LFS.

As most of these fish are very small, and I do frequent water changes to keep nitrate levels as low as possible, I'm fairly confident that there is room for another "main attraction" fish. Below are the fish I had my eye on. I'm mainly looking for input on these options. I'm strongly leaning towards the flame angel, as you'll see below

-Flame Angelfish: Magnificent color, perfect colored fish for my tank. But I see them listed as "semi-aggressive." This is my top candidate so far. I am looking for input on how he will get along with the others.

-Porcupine puffer: not the slightest bit attractive, but as cute as a pale full of kittens. I was dead set on getting one of these guys until I saw a video of one biting a small goldfish in half. There will be no eating of live-food in my tank. This sort of savage behavior will not be tolerated in my home, and if my goldfish ever saw this happen, even in the safety of their own tank, they'd probably go belly up. Also, I know that puffers get huge

-Volitan Lion: a true spectacle of a fish, but again, I'm worried about it eating my other fish. Namely the chromis, and maybe the clowns. I've seen some very nice looking smaller lions, but I know they also get huge. And there will be no eating of tank mates tolerated.

-Henoichus Butterfly: Nice and peaceful. Not the most attractive fish in the world, and they get kinda big

Any input on anything is greatly appreciated. I'm very new to this whole thing, and I'm always looking for information.

[ragvette]

My vote is for the flame angel.

I had a flame angel in my 90gal tank it was one of my favorite in the tank and it was also pretty hardy. My flame angel was also very peaceful so it should be fine in your tank.

[lcstorc]

Well I hate to tell you, but you are already overstocked. The general rule is one inch of full grown fish per 5 gllons of water. That gives you roughly 15 inches of fish. You have that with just the clowns, chromis and cardinals. The tangs really should be in a tank of at least 100gallons. They get very big very fast. I would strongly recommend taking them back to the lfs so they can go to someone with a bigger tank where they will have the appropriate swimming room.
As far as the specific fish you mention, I know nothing about the butterfly.
The flame angel is a dwarf angel so if you are going to get one of the fish listed this would be your best bet. They will nip at corals and can become agressive particlarly if overcrowded.
The puffer and the lion are both bad for the same reasons. They get very large. They eat primarily live food or at least will if given a chance so your other fish are definitely not safe. They produce a large amount of waste and will be an even bigger strain on your bioload than other similar sized fish.
I would hold off getting any more fish and like I said get rid of the tangs. Finish curing the rock and let your tank stabalize. It is still very new.
Then if you have your levels under control a couple of months from now you could consider another smaller fish. Even perhaps the angel.

HTH

[DaveK]

I have to agree with Icstorc on the thank already being over stocked.

As for the specific fish you are interested in, with the exception of the flame angel, all the others are generally not suitable for a reef system. The puffer and lion get too large and will eat the other smaller fish. A Henoichus Butterfly will get too large for your tank, and will nibble on corals.

As for the flame angel, it is a dwarf angel, and you have a chance of it working out, but all angles are a toss up. It could be fine, but it could also become a tank terror. In all cases, have a plan for the fish if it doesn't work out.

[nasek718]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

I have a very peaceful community in my 75g FOWLR setup. I currently have:

-1 yellow tang

I'm sorry thats funny...... Go with the flame angel.

[GeeWizzItsMe]

Umm... I may not be the most experienced person, but I disagree. This is not a reef tank, so the 5 in. per gallon is not really applicable.

However, your tank is very new, so see how things go for another month or two before thinking about another fish, but if I had the choice, I'd go for the flame angel!

[caitrina]

I really don't think the rule of one inch of fish per 5 gallons of water is specific to whether it is reef included or fish only. (Correct me if I am wrong) I do believe this general rule is whether it is reef or not and it is one inch of full grown fish per 5 gallons of water not 5 inches per gallon.
I have to agree with Lynn.

[Witfull]

Originally Posted by GeeWizzItsMe

Umm... I may not be the most experienced person, but I disagree. This is not a reef tank, so the 5 in. per gallon is not really applicable.

the rule is for SW in general, not just reef. its a close limit for minimum space/volume Vs. filtering capacity.

so it is applicable.

[caitrina]

Originally Posted by Witfull

the rule is for SW in general, not just reef. its a close limit for minimum space/volume Vs. filtering capacity.

so it is applicable.

Thanks Wit, I thought that was so.

[GeeWizzItsMe]

Oh, oops...

[cheeks69]

Its very new, the full tank has been running for a little over a month.

Adding 11 fish to a new setup can be very problematic, were any of these fish quarantined before adding them to the display ? What do you have for filtration ? How often do you do water changes ? What are your parameters ? I agree with Lynn your tank is already overstocked and not established yet, I would never recommend a Dwarf angel to a new setup. These fish don't always accept prepared foods when first introduced to captivity, they are grazers and depend on micro-algae that grows naturally on well established LR.

[Ntruder]

Rules of thumb are overly vague and generalizedl. For example, just about every fish I have is about as thick as a penny, so obviously a 1" chromis is not going to create the same bio-load as a 1" puffer fish. I'd bet that ONE of my goldfish produces 10x the waste that both of my Tangs do.

Secondly, the liverock probably only displaces around 5-10 gallons, and its all built up on the back wall, so there is tons of swimming room. 70/5 = 14". Clowns and the chromis are currently about an inch or less. The hippo is about 1.5", and the yellow tang is about 2". Cardinals are around 1.5" Thats 13.5". I'm currently under the "rule of thumb."

Third, I freakin love this hobby. Love love love. I built my own stand and I already have designs laid out for a new stand. IF, when these guys grow up (and fish don't grow fast) there is not enough room, there is about a .0005% chance that I will still have this small 75 gallon tank. I'll probably be up to a 125 by then. (More likely by the time I move next fall)

And finally, all the fish hang out near each other anyway. None display any territorial behavior whatsoever. The tangs do a lot of swimming. The chromis, clowns, and the cardinals are usually within 12" of each other. The Tangs are the only ones that actually use the space I've given them. All the others just play around in a group.

So I do appreciate the input, but I wouldn't worry too much about overcrowding. I do about 12 gallons worth of water changes each week, so the water stays nice and clean. And the fish will certainly outlive this tank. The 75 gallon size was chosen because of size limitations of my apartment. But I'm buying a house next fall, and I'll probably design an entire room around this aquarium.

[caitrina]

Alrighty then ......no more input from this end....

[cheeks69]

I do about 12 gallons worth of water changes each week, so the water stays nice and clean. And the fish will certainly outlive this tank.

Well you speak with such certainty, I'm not as confident ! Adding all these fish within such a short period of time isn't a good idea as your tank is in bacterial flux and depending on what your using for a skimmer and how often your feeding the 12 gal water change may not be enough to prevent an ammonia spike. I would watch your parameters very carefully and do more frequent water changes if necessary.

[DrHank]

Since you seem to know all the answers, why bother to ask our opinion? Our concern is for your livestock and not your ego. Sorry if this seems overly harsh but sometimes the truth hurts. Lynn was absolutely correct and that is also the consensus of quite a few experienced individuals who don't risk livestock in cycling a tank.