Nitrate Test results driving me nuts

[NaH2O]

Has the tank ever been treated with anything containing copper? Just a thought.

[Craig Manoukian]

Are you using a refractometer or a swing arm hyrometer to measure SG? There can be quite som e diffference and you can be off by .02 or .03 with a swing arm hydrometer.

[Cougra]

Newsalt

Yes the SG you keep your tank at could be a big part of the problem along with the speed of acclimatization. Snails, actually inverts in general, have very limited abilities to regulate the amounts of salts in thier bodies (osmoregulation) They depend on thier environment to have a salinity level very near that in which the need to survive, otherwise they expend a lot of energy attempting to maintain the salt levels within their body and can't keep up with the process.

When they are put into water that has lower concentrations of salts then what's in thier bodies, the salt content in the inverts body will be diulted and extra water entering the body can cause a lot of damage to the invert.

When it is slowly acclimatized, the invert has more of a change to be able to alter thier body chemistry to expel the extra salts in thier body to match that of thier new environment. The more difference there is in salinity the longer acclimatization should take.

Animals that are lost within the first month or so most likely die from some kind of shock that can be caused by different SG levels, pH shock, drastic difference in nitrAte levels, ammonia poisoning, or nitrIte poisoning caused from the facilities that they were held in, or how they were transported.

[Cougra]

Originally posted by Craig Manoukian
Are you using a refractometer or a swing arm hyrometer to measure SG? There can be quite som e diffference and you can be off by .02 or .03 with a swing arm hydrometer.

Granted a swing arm hydrometer can be off by a lot and it is important to know this.

However, if you measure the water that the animals come in and the water that you will be putting them in with the same peice of equipment, you will still be able to compare the difference in environments the animals will be kept in and be able to judge how much to acclimatize them from there.

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by Cougra
if you measure the water that the animals come in and the water that you will be putting them in with the same peice of equipment, you will still be able to compare the difference in environments the animals will be kept in and be able to judge how much to acclimatize them from there.

Good point Michelle!

Just a point of clarification, if you measure the water the inverts come in and balance your system to the same reading you could still be points away from the ideal environment for long-term well being. (ie. a swing arm reading of 1.025 on both water samples could really be 1.023).

[Cougra]

LOL Craig, between the two of us we'll eventually get the point across Thanks.

[Scooterman]

LOL he made a Point!

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by Cougra
LOL Craig, between the two of us we'll eventually get the point across Thanks.

I'm not real sharp in the AM! Well, we'll just leave it at that!

[Boomer]

Newsalt


Using the Mardel strips, the reading is clearly 35-40ppm (closer to 40ppm). Using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kit, I get 15ppm, 20ppm at the most.

Why such varying results? I even had my wife look at the results and she agreed with what I mentioned above.

These test kits are driving me nuts. They're so inconsistent. Even with the Ammonia kit. Using Mardel, it is clearly 0ppm. With the AP kit it's closer to .01 or 0.2 ppm.


I didn't go look up your test kits but this is often a problem that many forget and I see it here again maybe. First, does it say that both kits can be used in seawater Check your kits for the below units of measurements.

There are 2 different units for measuring Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia in seawater and freshwater

NO3-N & NO3 = Nitrate

NO2-N & NO2 = Nitrite

NH3-N & NH3 = Ammonia

Lets start with the first one. NO3-N = **Nitrate Nitrogen and the second NO3 = **Nitrate.

In the NO3-N the value given is for the amount of N or Nitrogen in the test. The O3 has been dropped. In the second it is for NO3, keeping the O3 for the value in the test. The values are the same/say, it is like 25 C vs. 77 F, so you need a conversion number.

10 ppm N-NO3 = 10 x 4.4 (conv. #) = 44 ppm NO3

Lets assume your reading of 15 ppm or is more like 10 and your other reading of 35-40, lets assume 40

15 x 4.4 = 66 ppm

10 x 4.4 =44 ppm

No we have

66 vs 40 and 44 vs 40 (these two almost the same)

The conversion #'s are;

1 ppm NO3-N = 4.4 ppm NO3

1 ppm NO2-N = 2.2ppm NO2

1 ppm NH3-N = 1.1 ppm NH3




Michelle


nitrite poisoning

This is a myth, that nitrite is toxic in seawater. It is quite toxic in FW, although you are often told it is much more toxic in SW. The NO2 ion has to compete in SW with the Chloride ion, Cl-, which will always win. Nitrite is much more toxic in FW and is the reason behind FW systems to add some table salt to reduce Nitrite toxicity.

[Scooterman]

nitrite poisoning myth is good to know, thanks Boomer.

[Boomer]

Ok, but that doesn't mean let it climb through the roof. Most of the so-called NO2 toxicity in seawater is just delayed ammonia posioning that creates deaths. We still want it a 0 ppm

[Craig Manoukian]

This is from my good friend and chemist and amplifies the good information boomer posted on Nitrites:

With respect to Nitrite toxicity in salt versus fresh water, honestly in most well established aquariums the point is mute because you typically have the same concentration of ammonia consuming bacteria as nitrite consuming bacteria. Nature abhors a vacuum as a long as there is a nutrient, there is a bug to consume it. That being said there have been significant studies showing decrease methohemoglobin production in fish in fresh water containing small amounts of chlorides. Methohemoglobin is produced in the bloodstream when nitrites are absorbed through fish gills. The nitrite ions reduce the iron from a +3 state (ferric) to a +2 state (ferrous) making the molecule as a whole incapable of oxygen transport. The fish suffocates on a cellular level.

In salt water systems the chloride are very much present and the toxicity of nitrite is much reduced...to a point. When the nitrites get high enough, death is imminent. Fresh water fish don't have the chloride ions and therefore are more susceptible.

E

HTH

[Boomer]

Craig

methohemoglobin Spelled wrong

I was going to get into that but decided to leave it out .So to add a tad more. A cure and / or preventative aid, against Methaemoglobin, during high NO2, besides Cl- , is Methylene Blue. However, one needs to be very, very careful with it, as it is also a Nitrification inhibitor, which could cause ammonia to rise. This light molecular weight organic/inorganic dye aids in the transport of oxygen and converts abnormal Methaemoglobin, brown blood, back to its normal oxygen carrying component, hemoglobin