Coral Beauty Angel

newsalt · 01-13-2004, 02:01 PM

I got a Coral Beauty Angel this past Sunday at Petco. It seems to be doing great. I was looking at it this afternoon and there's a spot on its body near the pectoral fin that look like a scratch (for lack of a better description). I have two clowns in the tank and niether of them, as far as I can tell bother the Angel at all. The Angel is the only on of the three fish that actually swims in and through the Live Rock. Could it be that it bumped itself against the LR and knock off some scales. I don't ever see it "scratching" itself against the rock or anything else in the tank. If it did, this would indicate some type of disease (ich or marine velvet) right? Should I do anything?

Thanks

Craig Manoukian · 01-13-2004, 05:31 PM

Welcome newsalt.

Hope I don't step on your toes here, but those three fish will pose a big bioload on your 15 gallon micro tank. You don't indicate a skimmer which I highly recommend in your situation.

The abrasion could be a disease or a scratch as you suggested. With out a picture or a little more description it is hard to say.

The water quality issue related to the potential overstocking situation will have a much more long-term negative effect on the health of all three fish and severly impede the ability of the coral beauty to heal itself. Your not being able to keep snails alive is a good indicator that your water parameters are out of whack.

You should be testing your water and if you could post your readings for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Ph, Specific Gravity, and tank temp, that would be most helpful. Also, please indicate which brand of test kit you are using.

The genaral rule for fish quantity allowed per tank is 1" per gallon. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have 10 gallons of water net of the rock and sand displacement. Those three fish will grow to between 15 - 18" at maturity, which is far more than your tank can support.

I would strongly consider returning the coral beauty to the LFS. I hope I haven't been to heavy handed and you understand I am just concerned for the fish.

HTH

vjvl51 · 01-13-2004, 07:16 PM

Craig, I was under the impression that the rule of thumb was 1" of fish per gallon for a fresh water tank and 1" of fish per 5 gallons for a marine tank. Here is a site that I use http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/stockguide.shtml

Vickie

BoomerD · 01-13-2004, 07:30 PM

I'll go with Vicki on this one, 1" of ADULT fish per 5 gallons of water. Of course, that's for long term fish keeping, and since I KNOW that newsalt is gonna upgrde to at least a 55 in the next couple of weeks...

newsalt · 01-13-2004, 08:15 PM

BoomerD:

I can't go to 55 gallon due to space limitations, but I'm looking into 29g by the spring.

Craig:

You're not stepping on my toes at all. I'm value all opinions on this forum. My water params are:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 20-30 ppm (I know that's high, I'm working on that)
pH: 8-ish
SG: 1.022 (I'm working on raising that to about 1.024)
Temp: 77-78 deg. F

I'm using Mardel Test strips. I used to use Aquarium Pharm. but didn't like those kits.

My problem with snails IMO is:
1. SG to low for snails
2. Nitrates to high
3. Not acclimated long enough. I only used the drip method for about a half hour
4. I used to use tap water until about a week ago. Now I use RO water.

You wrote "Those three fish will grow to between 15 - 18" at maturity.." A dwarf angel growing to 18" or a clown for that matter? Wow! All the things I've read online and in books mention the clown possibly reaching 3-4" and the Coral Beauty growing to 4". All three fish seem happy as can be; swimming and eating like pigs. Maybe that's temporary, but as I mentioned above, by the spring, the fish will be in a 29g. Even then, I will probably only add a Royal Gramma and a cleaner shrimp.

cheeks69 · 01-13-2004, 08:36 PM

The Coral Beauty is one of the hardiest of the dwarf angels but is not recommended as a beginner fish, it requires a mature tank that has stabilized, it is very sensitive to sudden changes in water chemistry and IMHO a 15gal is too small and susceptible {I think that's how you spell it

} to sudden changes. I believe the minimum tank size for a Dwarf Angel is 30gal with plenty of LR for him to graze on.

SaltyQueen · 01-13-2004, 09:54 PM

i believe craig was refering to the total length: if each fish grows to 4", that's a total of 12" miminum adult length, but I believe coral beauties will grow a little bigger than 4", possibly 5 or 6".

BoomerD · 01-13-2004, 10:08 PM

Just a thought, if you have room for a 29 gallon tnak, (30" long) you can get 40 or even 50/55 gallon tanks that are 36" long. Just a bit wider & taller.

Craig Manoukian · 01-13-2004, 10:18 PM

Thanks SQ that is correct on total length. I've seen clowns and Coral Beauties in the 5-6" range as mature adults. 3 fis equals 15 - 18".

As BoomerD points out 30 gallons is really the minimum tank size as this gives hobbiests a little room for error. I have a 20 gallon, but can squeek by due to its 30" length. Lateral swim room is important to fish. I have a skimmer and only two small damsels in my 20 gallon long.

I apologize for omitting the additional concern that a Coral Beauty is a grazer and needs a mature tank with algae growth. Unless you are going to upgrade immediately, I woulsd again urge you to return the angel to the LFS.

wooddood · 01-14-2004, 07:20 AM

i'll have to agree with craig on this one.coral beauty's constantly graze the tank and need alot of swim room.if you really want to keep it go with as large a tank as you can fit in your space.i kept mine in a 35 gal tall tank for months with no problems but he's in the 120 now.hth.

Scooterman · 01-14-2004, 08:47 AM

Scooterman · 01-14-2004, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scooterman
The rule we use for saltwater is three inches of fish for every square foot of surface area.

Even this rule is limited, because one big fish will need more swim room & poop more than 5 small fish. In a 15g tank, your limited to very small fish and not many, if you keep up the water changes, which would needed to be weekly in that case. It would be easier to skim and make it a reef than try to raise those particular fish in a small tank. Also, the pigmy angels require almost perfect water conditions, smaller tanks fluctuate very fast, it will be difficult to keep him healthy at best.
Sorry, I know this sounds like stepping on toes but I'm just telling you from experience.

newsalt · 01-14-2004, 07:42 PM

Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic. For what it's worth, I think I'm going to hang onto the Coral Beauty. Hopefully, It will do fine until I switch to the 29g or 37g in early April.

BTW, if you recall my original post was about a "scratch" on the Coral Beauty. As of today, it looks like it getting better. It's not as noticable.

I'll keep you posted.

Craig Manoukian · 01-14-2004, 09:00 PM

Let's hope your Coral Beauty doesn't starve between now and April with little or nothing to graze on in the tank.

Watch very carefully and make sure it is eating. A mix of meaty foods - mysis shrimp along with nori seaweed, and spirulina would be good. Make sure that their is no thinning in its body behind the dorsal fins and in the gut area.

Good luck moving to the 37 gallon tank!

01-13-2004, 02:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
newsalt Torch coral Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 574 View Gallery Karma Komment	Coral Beauty Angel I got a Coral Beauty Angel this past Sunday at Petco. It seems to be doing great. I was looking at it this afternoon and there's a spot on its body near the pectoral fin that look like a scratch (for lack of a better description). I have two clowns in the tank and niether of them, as far as I can tell bother the Angel at all. The Angel is the only on of the three fish that actually swims in and through the Live Rock. Could it be that it bumped itself against the LR and knock off some scales. I don't ever see it "scratching" itself against the rock or anything else in the tank. If it did, this would indicate some type of disease (ich or marine velvet) right? Should I do anything? Thanks __________________ Equipment 120g Reef, (2) 250W XM 20K MH, (2) 110W T12 VHO Super Actinic, MRC MR2 Beckett Skimmer, 55g Sump, Iwaki Return Pump Setup August 2006

01-13-2004, 05:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,732 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Welcome newsalt. Hope I don't step on your toes here, but those three fish will pose a big bioload on your 15 gallon micro tank. You don't indicate a skimmer which I highly recommend in your situation. The abrasion could be a disease or a scratch as you suggested. With out a picture or a little more description it is hard to say. The water quality issue related to the potential overstocking situation will have a much more long-term negative effect on the health of all three fish and severly impede the ability of the coral beauty to heal itself. Your not being able to keep snails alive is a good indicator that your water parameters are out of whack. You should be testing your water and if you could post your readings for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Ph, Specific Gravity, and tank temp, that would be most helpful. Also, please indicate which brand of test kit you are using. The genaral rule for fish quantity allowed per tank is 1" per gallon. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have 10 gallons of water net of the rock and sand displacement. Those three fish will grow to between 15 - 18" at maturity, which is far more than your tank can support. I would strongly consider returning the coral beauty to the LFS. I hope I haven't been to heavy handed and you understand I am just concerned for the fish. HTH __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

01-13-2004, 07:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
vjvl51 Tubeworm Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 35 View Gallery Karma Komment	Craig, I was under the impression that the rule of thumb was 1" of fish per gallon for a fresh water tank and 1" of fish per 5 gallons for a marine tank. Here is a site that I use http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/stockguide.shtml Vickie __________________ 90 gallon display +25 gallon refugium + 25 gallon sump Aqua C EV180 2 VHO + 2 MH - 13K PFO 250 W culturing NAN, TET, rotifers & brine shrimp

01-13-2004, 08:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
newsalt Torch coral Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 574 View Gallery Karma Komment	BoomerD: I can't go to 55 gallon due to space limitations, but I'm looking into 29g by the spring. Craig: You're not stepping on my toes at all. I'm value all opinions on this forum. My water params are: Ammonia: 0 ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 20-30 ppm (I know that's high, I'm working on that) pH: 8-ish SG: 1.022 (I'm working on raising that to about 1.024) Temp: 77-78 deg. F I'm using Mardel Test strips. I used to use Aquarium Pharm. but didn't like those kits. My problem with snails IMO is: 1. SG to low for snails 2. Nitrates to high 3. Not acclimated long enough. I only used the drip method for about a half hour 4. I used to use tap water until about a week ago. Now I use RO water. You wrote "Those three fish will grow to between 15 - 18" at maturity.." A dwarf angel growing to 18" or a clown for that matter? Wow! All the things I've read online and in books mention the clown possibly reaching 3-4" and the Coral Beauty growing to 4". All three fish seem happy as can be; swimming and eating like pigs. Maybe that's temporary, but as I mentioned above, by the spring, the fish will be in a 29g. Even then, I will probably only add a Royal Gramma and a cleaner shrimp. __________________ Equipment 120g Reef, (2) 250W XM 20K MH, (2) 110W T12 VHO Super Actinic, MRC MR2 Beckett Skimmer, 55g Sump, Iwaki Return Pump Setup August 2006

01-13-2004, 08:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,533 View Gallery Karma Komment	The Coral Beauty is one of the hardiest of the dwarf angels but is not recommended as a beginner fish, it requires a mature tank that has stabilized, it is very sensitive to sudden changes in water chemistry and IMHO a 15gal is too small and susceptible {I think that's how you spell it } to sudden changes. I believe the minimum tank size for a Dwarf Angel is 30gal with plenty of LR for him to graze on. __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein Last edited by cheeks69 : 01-13-2004 at 08:44 PM.

01-13-2004, 07:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,234 View Gallery Karma Komment	I'll go with Vicki on this one, 1" of ADULT fish per 5 gallons of water. Of course, that's for long term fish keeping, and since I KNOW that newsalt is gonna upgrde to at least a 55 in the next couple of weeks...

01-13-2004, 09:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
SaltyQueen Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 400 View Gallery Karma Komment	i believe craig was refering to the total length: if each fish grows to 4", that's a total of 12" miminum adult length, but I believe coral beauties will grow a little bigger than 4", possibly 5 or 6".

01-13-2004, 10:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,234 View Gallery Karma Komment	Just a thought, if you have room for a 29 gallon tnak, (30" long) you can get 40 or even 50/55 gallon tanks that are 36" long. Just a bit wider & taller.

01-13-2004, 10:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,732 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Thanks SQ that is correct on total length. I've seen clowns and Coral Beauties in the 5-6" range as mature adults. 3 fis equals 15 - 18". As BoomerD points out 30 gallons is really the minimum tank size as this gives hobbiests a little room for error. I have a 20 gallon, but can squeek by due to its 30" length. Lateral swim room is important to fish. I have a skimmer and only two small damsels in my 20 gallon long. I apologize for omitting the additional concern that a Coral Beauty is a grazer and needs a mature tank with algae growth. Unless you are going to upgrade immediately, I woulsd again urge you to return the angel to the LFS. __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

01-14-2004, 07:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
wooddood the wood dude Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CARMEL. INDIANA Posts: 3,450 View Gallery Karma Komment	i'll have to agree with craig on this one.coral beauty's constantly graze the tank and need alot of swim room.if you really want to keep it go with as large a tank as you can fit in your space.i kept mine in a 35 gal tall tank for months with no problems but he's in the 120 now.hth. __________________ 120 gal/in wall tank/starboard substraight/2 250 watt 10k xm metal halides/ 4 55watt 03 actinics/150lbs lr/scwd on return/scwd on a closed loop/aquaclear aquatics 200 pro wetdry w/skimmer. ask all the questions you have if we cant answer it we'll make up some thing. remember patience is the key to a kick ass reef. dave.

01-14-2004, 08:47 AM	#11 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,179 View Gallery Karma Komment	oops __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan) Last edited by Scooterman : 01-14-2004 at 08:56 AM.

01-14-2004, 07:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
newsalt Torch coral Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 574 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic. For what it's worth, I think I'm going to hang onto the Coral Beauty. Hopefully, It will do fine until I switch to the 29g or 37g in early April. BTW, if you recall my original post was about a "scratch" on the Coral Beauty. As of today, it looks like it getting better. It's not as noticable. I'll keep you posted. __________________ Equipment 120g Reef, (2) 250W XM 20K MH, (2) 110W T12 VHO Super Actinic, MRC MR2 Beckett Skimmer, 55g Sump, Iwaki Return Pump Setup August 2006

01-14-2004, 09:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,732 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Let's hope your Coral Beauty doesn't starve between now and April with little or nothing to graze on in the tank. Watch very carefully and make sure it is eating. A mix of meaty foods - mysis shrimp along with nori seaweed, and spirulina would be good. Make sure that their is no thinning in its body behind the dorsal fins and in the gut area. Good luck moving to the 37 gallon tank! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)