Need your help with a project - Page 4

DaveK · 01-03-2005, 11:02 PM

I have extended the LFS store data base to include a store in New Jersey. Considering the number of stores there, this is a small start.

This should be a great resource for us and the stores once it gets going. I feel a lot of LFS stores do not realise how far us reef keepers are willing to go to obtain quality livestock. Even good stores that are near to me, say under 20 miles, seldom list themselves in the telephone directory outside their own local yellow pages. Great stores could exist in the next county and I'd never hear of them.

Travis · 01-03-2005, 11:31 PM

Thanks DavK, I'm glad you see the potential value of this.

About witholding negative opinions... I say, as long as you keep it truthful and objective, we should have HONEST opinions of every LFS possible.

Travis

forestal · 01-03-2005, 11:49 PM

Travis, added 5 to CT and 1 to MA....super idea and i think this may become the place to go to find LFS all over

Travis · 01-04-2005, 12:04 AM

Thanks Dan. You've got Karma!

Maxx · 01-04-2005, 09:02 AM

uhh........

Yeah, That was the idea!

Doh!

Nick

luistwentyone · 01-04-2005, 02:58 PM

Excellent idea !

DaveK · 01-04-2005, 10:56 PM

I've been looking at some of the reviews in some states that I might be visiting in the next few months. I noticed that a lot of reviews rated the LFS with a 10. This got me thinking, "What makes a LFS worthy a 10?"

To me, rateing a store with a 10 means that in many major areas the store is in a class by itself. It's a rateing that shouldn't be given lightly. I personally feel that the number of stores that would rate a 10 would be less than 1 or 2%. Over the years, now about 40, I must have seen a couple of hunderd LFS. Most were good, some were excellent, but only a few were outstanding, even by the standards of the time. I feel a store that gets a 10 should be one that I would go out of my way to visit, one of those "you have got to see it" kind of places.

Here is what I believe makes an outstanding store worthy of a 10.

The livestock must be of top quality. It also should be extensive in several areas, but need not include all areas. If you visit the store, you should expect to see livestock that you seldom see, not necessarly rare and expensive, but beyond your everyday "run of the mill" livestock.

The equipment offerend should be able to support any of the livestock the store sells and span the range from low end to high end. Obviously no store can carry everything or have a complete inventory in stock, but a person, be they a biginner or advanced, should be able to go into the store and purchase the aquarium system needed to correctly maintain any of the livestock the store sells. There should also be a selection of books, and it's not a bad idea to recommend them to new people.

The entire staff of people working in the store, not just the owner, manager, or "salt water guy" should be knowlegable about the livestock and equipment they sell. Again, no one can know it all, but they should know enough about it to advise you on it. The advice that is given should be correct and complete. If something isn't going to work for you, they should tell you. If livestock you plan on buying has some unusual reguirements, they should warn you about them. The staff should also be polite, and when necessary be willing to explain the same thing over and over again.

The store itself should be well lighted, clean, and look like the sort of place you'd want to visit. It never hurts to have a tank or two set up to demonstrate what can be done.

I don't think there are very many stores that can live up to all this. It's very difficult. Sometimes just by being good in one area makes it harder to be good in another. For example, the store has to be large to carry a large amount of livestock and equipment. Yet to do that, they need more people, and may be forced to have people not as knowlegable as they should be.

One last thought on some of the reviews I have read. A description like "great livestock" or "great prices", or "has everything" doesn't tell anyone else much about the store. If possible, I belive it would help to qualify and/or quantify. For example, "extesive selection of SW fish and live coral" or "prices somewhat below average" tells everone a lot more.

Tarasco · 01-05-2005, 09:40 PM

I just added a bunch for SoCal. Will be adding more later.

Travis · 01-05-2005, 10:22 PM

Tarasco's been busy! Thanks!!! YGK!

DaveK, I think you make some good points. Reality is, any time a large group of people review things they are each going to grade on a slightly different scale. It's the same way at Amazon or Epinions... the important thing is, we can tell a lot from the description and rating together. Just as the reviews at Amazon and ePinions are still extremely helpful, I believe they will be here as well.

T

dwall174 · 01-07-2005, 01:12 AM

I added 7 for Michigan! Got some for Ohio I will add later!

Craig Manoukian · 01-07-2005, 03:21 AM

You da man Doug!

forestal · 01-07-2005, 09:47 AM

Dave, very good points i think on rating...

I rated the 2 of the 5 i added i have been to...

I have a tendency to give people excellent ratings for all of your reasons, if there is anything bad...they get a bad rating...i don't do well in the in between...i will try to balance it oiut a bit better

Cougra · 01-07-2005, 12:39 PM

Well, I have started adding some stores for Ontario! I think I have 10 on the list so far with a couple reviews. I have many more that I can/will add to the list but not going to burn myself out!

What about listing Online only stores as well? Will this be acceptable as these are few in between here in Canada and a lot of dedicated reefers use them here. Often these online retailers work out of their basements as well for local customers.

Is this listing for stores that sell some saltwater stuff or can stores that have only freshwater selections be added as well?

Gina · 01-07-2005, 01:19 PM

Michelle,
Not sure what Travis will say about on-line only stores. But, I would think the listings could be for Salt and Fresh water stores.

I would venture to guess that on-line only stores would be fine but, I'll let Travis answer that one.

DaveK · 01-07-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forestal

Dave, very good points i think on rating...

I rated the 2 of the 5 i added i have been to...

I have a tendency to give people excellent ratings for all of your reasons, if there is anything bad...they get a bad rating...i don't do well in the in between...i will try to balance it oiut a bit better

Hi Dan,

You have a point, and that why, as Travis pointed out, that any rateing system is a bit subjective. My opinion is that there needs to be a way to distinguish between a very good solid store, whith no serious problems and a store that is in the class of "You just got to see this place if you are ever within 200 miles of it".

Everyone is different. This is my own method or rateing. Is should not necessarly be your or any one elses.

A good solid store with good selection and no serious problems would rate a 7.

A store that is above average in one or two areas would rate an 8.

A store that is above average in many areas would rate a 9.

The few stores in the "You just got too see this place" would rate a 10.

Going the other way, lower rateings for various problem areas. I don't think I'd even bother to rate a store that I felt was below a 5. For the real dogs, ones that should be avoided, I'd enter a listing, and then in the description enter something like "I choose not to rate this store". That says much more that any bad review anyone could give.

01-03-2005, 11:49 PM	#48 (permalink)
forestal Torch coral Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 582 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Travis, added 5 to CT and 1 to MA....super idea and i think this may become the place to go to find LFS all over __________________ Peace, Dan

01-04-2005, 09:02 AM	#50 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	uhh........ Yeah, That was the idea! Doh! Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

01-04-2005, 02:58 PM	#51 (permalink)
luistwentyone Midas Blenny Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chula Vista, CA Posts: 87 View Gallery Karma Komment	Excellent idea ! __________________ HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS !!!

01-05-2005, 09:40 PM	#53 (permalink)
Tarasco Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 724 View Gallery Karma Komment	I just added a bunch for SoCal. Will be adding more later. __________________ Mike "I saw what the governor makes. That's like four hands of blackjack." -- Charles Barkley on why he wasn't seriously considering becoming the Governor of Alabama

01-07-2005, 01:12 AM	#55 (permalink)
dwall174 Cabbage Leather Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southeast MI. Posts: 382 View Gallery Karma Komment	I added 7 for Michigan! Got some for Ohio I will add later! __________________ Doug

01-03-2005, 11:02 PM	#46 (permalink)
DaveK Neon dottyback Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philadelpahia, PA Posts: 653 View Gallery Karma Komment	I have extended the LFS store data base to include a store in New Jersey. Considering the number of stores there, this is a small start. This should be a great resource for us and the stores once it gets going. I feel a lot of LFS stores do not realise how far us reef keepers are willing to go to obtain quality livestock. Even good stores that are near to me, say under 20 miles, seldom list themselves in the telephone directory outside their own local yellow pages. Great stores could exist in the next county and I'd never hear of them.

01-03-2005, 11:31 PM	#47 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,701 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Thanks DavK, I'm glad you see the potential value of this. About witholding negative opinions... I say, as long as you keep it truthful and objective, we should have HONEST opinions of every LFS possible. Travis

01-04-2005, 12:04 AM	#49 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,701 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Thanks Dan. You've got Karma!

01-04-2005, 10:56 PM	#52 (permalink)
DaveK Neon dottyback Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philadelpahia, PA Posts: 653 View Gallery Karma Komment	I've been looking at some of the reviews in some states that I might be visiting in the next few months. I noticed that a lot of reviews rated the LFS with a 10. This got me thinking, "What makes a LFS worthy a 10?" To me, rateing a store with a 10 means that in many major areas the store is in a class by itself. It's a rateing that shouldn't be given lightly. I personally feel that the number of stores that would rate a 10 would be less than 1 or 2%. Over the years, now about 40, I must have seen a couple of hunderd LFS. Most were good, some were excellent, but only a few were outstanding, even by the standards of the time. I feel a store that gets a 10 should be one that I would go out of my way to visit, one of those "you have got to see it" kind of places. Here is what I believe makes an outstanding store worthy of a 10. The livestock must be of top quality. It also should be extensive in several areas, but need not include all areas. If you visit the store, you should expect to see livestock that you seldom see, not necessarly rare and expensive, but beyond your everyday "run of the mill" livestock. The equipment offerend should be able to support any of the livestock the store sells and span the range from low end to high end. Obviously no store can carry everything or have a complete inventory in stock, but a person, be they a biginner or advanced, should be able to go into the store and purchase the aquarium system needed to correctly maintain any of the livestock the store sells. There should also be a selection of books, and it's not a bad idea to recommend them to new people. The entire staff of people working in the store, not just the owner, manager, or "salt water guy" should be knowlegable about the livestock and equipment they sell. Again, no one can know it all, but they should know enough about it to advise you on it. The advice that is given should be correct and complete. If something isn't going to work for you, they should tell you. If livestock you plan on buying has some unusual reguirements, they should warn you about them. The staff should also be polite, and when necessary be willing to explain the same thing over and over again. The store itself should be well lighted, clean, and look like the sort of place you'd want to visit. It never hurts to have a tank or two set up to demonstrate what can be done. I don't think there are very many stores that can live up to all this. It's very difficult. Sometimes just by being good in one area makes it harder to be good in another. For example, the store has to be large to carry a large amount of livestock and equipment. Yet to do that, they need more people, and may be forced to have people not as knowlegable as they should be. One last thought on some of the reviews I have read. A description like "great livestock" or "great prices", or "has everything" doesn't tell anyone else much about the store. If possible, I belive it would help to qualify and/or quantify. For example, "extesive selection of SW fish and live coral" or "prices somewhat below average" tells everone a lot more.

01-05-2005, 10:22 PM	#54 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,701 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Tarasco's been busy! Thanks!!! YGK! DaveK, I think you make some good points. Reality is, any time a large group of people review things they are each going to grade on a slightly different scale. It's the same way at Amazon or Epinions... the important thing is, we can tell a lot from the description and rating together. Just as the reviews at Amazon and ePinions are still extremely helpful, I believe they will be here as well. T

01-07-2005, 03:21 AM	#56 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,352 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	You da man Doug! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

01-07-2005, 09:47 AM	#57 (permalink)
forestal Torch coral Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 582 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Dave, very good points i think on rating... I rated the 2 of the 5 i added i have been to... I have a tendency to give people excellent ratings for all of your reasons, if there is anything bad...they get a bad rating...i don't do well in the in between...i will try to balance it oiut a bit better __________________ Peace, Dan

01-07-2005, 12:39 PM	#58 (permalink)
Cougra Dragon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 2,216 View Gallery Karma Komment	Well, I have started adding some stores for Ontario! I think I have 10 on the list so far with a couple reviews. I have many more that I can/will add to the list but not going to burn myself out! What about listing Online only stores as well? Will this be acceptable as these are few in between here in Canada and a lot of dedicated reefers use them here. Often these online retailers work out of their basements as well for local customers. Is this listing for stores that sell some saltwater stuff or can stores that have only freshwater selections be added as well? __________________ Michelle Just because something CAN be done, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be done!

01-07-2005, 01:19 PM	#59 (permalink)
Gina Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,833 View Gallery Karma Komment	Michelle, Not sure what Travis will say about on-line only stores. But, I would think the listings could be for Salt and Fresh water stores. I would venture to guess that on-line only stores would be fine but, I'll let Travis answer that one. __________________ Gina and Mark's 75 Visit Our Sponsors Gina's Cube Gina

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