Commercial Posts

[StoneyReef]

I know we were talking a lot about commercial posts in the Calcium reactor thread, and I did not want to throw it off any further. So I decided to start this thread. with that:

Travis's last post really hit home, and here I am quoting it:

No worries is right, this place is all about the sharing of information, what better place to get informatuion about a product than from the person who makes it?

I know a few people now in "the business" and it's sad that they all begin feeling uncomfortable posting at all because there's always that watchful eye since "they're commerical." Rock on Patrick, please share information and participate, we can count on you not to post solely for the purpose of advertising your product. Thanks for sharing your expertise in the field.

Travis

What really hit home was the part about us being afraid of posting. Yes, I will tell you from the conversations I have had with others in the business, this is exactly how we feel. Especially in some DIY threads. We make continual upgrades to our products and it is soo easy to tell them about something simple that will make their project so much simpler. However, since we referenced our product or showed a picture, then it is automatically commercial.
I actually had that happen recently as I was trying to explain dosing pumps, and showed a picture and described why it was the best way to dose kalk. BAM! it was suddenly commercial.

Anyhow, I would love to be able to help people out with some DIY projects. But I fear what the repercussions are. Most people who do DIY either want the challenge, or have it in thier mind that they are not going to buy from a vendor this time around anyhow, so why not help them. There are two possible outcomes:

A. the project turns out well, and they give you kudos that you helped them, and maybe sometime in the future when they are 'too busy' they buy their next item from you.

b. The project turns out bad, and they realize there is some skill and a learning curve involved with working with some of these products and end up getting a unit from the person they got help from initially.

I have no problem sending people to Reefmania or Myreefcreations at the current time for skimmers and such, as I find skimmers tedious and very time consuming. I also talk to each of these vendors quite often. I have no reservation about it. We all have our niche in the community, and we all know it, there is no reason we cannot be friends. Andy at myreefcreations emailed a bit about the combo reactor and some of the chemistry involved in making them an integral unit. We both agree we should try it when we have time. Alas, that is the problem, we do not have time! We do not have time because it is all your your guys' fault! Your keeping us busy! THANK YOU!

Anyhow, the Reef Aquarium hobby is growing exponentially right now with the information age of the internet and every one of the vendors can see that.

So no, I am not going to sit here and tell you about the specials I run, or why you should buy my product over someone elses. We pay to have a website, and use that area to go over the many points and so forth of why ours should be optimal for your system compared to someone elses. We have a heck of a lot more room there to do it, and would not have to type it out ad infinitum in threads.
You want a primer on how a kalk reactor works? Heck yeah, I will give you one, the concept is basic no matter which reactor you have. You want a primer on working a calcium reactor, I would probably give you the link to reef keeping magazine. If you want to know why I put a valve on the bottom of a reactor, I would tell you to rinse out the sludge. However if you want to tell me you have a 10,000 gallon tank and want an appropriate reactor for it and how much would it cost, well then email me. I am going to need a lot more info than what we are going to put in a post.
So yeah, general info about stuff, that could be applied uniformly, to almost anything, or even if you ask me something specific about my product, and it is something that could be used to enhance another, I would tell you.

I am not going to tell you trade secrets, or similar items. Tell me what you think!!! What role do you think vendors should play in posting? Do you want thier help in DIY? How about their opinions on other areas, obviously we designed some of our stuff to make it easier to care for the critters we keep.

Like my rose BTA and Lionfish tank, or a very simple successful SPS tank using clams to handle the fish bio load. We have a lot to share!!!

[semigodd154]

very well said i think i'll mark you as a buddy just in case i need a little info as far as i'm concerned speak away about whatever you would like i believe this is a free country so i'm all for it.

[StoneyReef]

Free country is right, but private board! So we have to play by their rules for the most part! I have faith that all people are inherently "non-evil"

[wooddood]

thanks patrick well said.i for one would love for you to comment more on a lot of threads i know you could give the answers to.i would love to have you around more.i got your pm.im going to pm you now.thanks dave.

[Witfull]

very well said, i agree wholeheartedly, some of you know that i will call someone on making commercial postings (i cannot speak his name) that person is the example of not what to do, if there is an item that someone may be interested in, they should know about it, and not have to try and find it by googling etc... but if in post after post it looks like you are running down another company just to make yourself look better then there is a problem. i personally do not expect to see that here.
Stoney, i know your reputation, and you have many tidbits and insights on the hobby and it is much appriciated, welcome to the Sanctuary and i look forward to learning from you.

only crabs are inherintly evil!!

[Montanareefer]

Yeah like I have said, I got a cal reactor from stoneyreef(Patrick) and it is professionally made and very happy with it. Hope to have it hooked up soon when I get my new sump/refugium.

Patrick has helped me out alot and enjoy talking to him in chat!

[Cosmic]

Stoney,
I'm completely sure that if you keep your posts to the content within that thread, like you have shown already in the CA reactor thread, then I don't think you need to worry at all about commercial posting.

I myself run a LFS, but I keep my business off the board. Instead, I only try to offer advice and commentary on my experiences in the hobby. I can tell that you have much the same belief in keeping the 2 separate, so please continue ffering up advice and comments as seen fit. I don't think anyone's going to bite your head off

Glad to have you aboard RS!

Cos

[mojoreef]

LOL its all good Patrick. The comercail posting line seems to be a foggy one but its not really. Helping folks and working with them is always a good thing no matter who does it. As with everything a policy must always be setup as thier are those that abuse it and use the boards as thier own advertizing campaign. What you have done so far and what you are saying will always be welcome at RS. so please feel free.
When it comes to DIY personally I have done alot of acrylic work but cant stand it and would always buy from a pro rather then do it myself. Thier is always more to getting it cheaper by doing it yourself for me its liability, lol and I want to be able to make that call if something goes wrong.

Anyway with this knowledge your going to share, dose that include toe injuries????? lol

mike

[Pro_builder]

Stoney,
I agree with you completely. We could all (DIYers and reefers) use your thoughts on things that would make a product better or easier to use. Most of these items that we are building are complicated and you can easily overlook a very simple thing. Plus, 2, 3 or even 4 heads are better than 1. Thanks for the post and we do appreciate the info that you contribute.

[StoneyReef]

Toe injuries . . . NO, but I can relate to trying to pry your thumbnail off with a screw driver while trying to tighen a hose clamp because you cannot find the nut drive! Tetanus shots are fun right?

[Curtswearing]

Originally posted by StoneyReef
Free country is right, but private board! So we have to play by their rules for the most part! I have faith that all people are inherently "non-evil"

I'm evil but luckily Witfull keeps me in line.

[Curtswearing]

Originally posted by StoneyReef
[b]I would love to be able to help people out with some DIY projects. But I fear what the repercussions are.

If your motivations are pure and you are trying to really be helpful (which is what I think at this point), you have absolutely nothing to fear.

You want a primer on how a kalk reactor works? Heck yeah, I will give you one, the concept is basic no matter which reactor you have. You want a primer on working a calcium reactor, I would probably give you the link to reef keeping magazine.

If you already have the concepts of a Kalk reactor written up, please post it. If not, don't go out of your way to do so.

RS is a little bit of an oddity. This is a SANCTUARY for people. A lot of things are unusual here. I started typing what the differences will be but I decided to delete the rest of my post as we don't yet know how awesome RS will be.

[Travis]

All I can do is stand by what I already said.

For me, this is kind of like when you become a parent, you start evaluating what you'd like to do differently than your parents did. Sometimes it works out, sometimes you learn that your parents were right.

I can't speak for Teri, but I know her well enough to assume, that we can open up our forums a bit more to commercial entities who want to have a place to share their knowledge in a non-commercial fashion. If this leeway becomes abused, we will first take it on a case-by-case basis, and only if the abuse becomes widespread would we have to become more strict in policy.

Let's make this a place where Logical feels free to teach us about zoanthids, stoneyreef about CA reactors and DIY projects, habib about testing methods, Cosmic about the ins and outs of running a LFS, the list goes on and on...

Now, not to discourage you, but just to cover our butts a bit:

Those who have already proven their tendency to abuse such a privelege on other boards (you know who you are) will be met with much less tolerance so that this openness of information can be preserved for those who respect it.

"abuse" will be determined solely by the moderators and administrators of this board and we reserve the right to take any action we deem necessary to prevent further abuse.

[Travis]

Moving the the "suggestion box"

Please, continue.

T

[Maxx]

10 out of ten reefers agree...professionals are welcome to post their experiances, know how, and to freely dispense advice based on their knowledge! I started to type up a large post when I came home from the bar last night, (13 hours of dealing w/ Hippy kids in rapture w/ the bluegrass performers of last night...I desperately needed something quiet, relaxing, Patchouli free!) but then I feel asleep in the middle on this amazing, thoughtful, intelligent and incredibly insightful post that would have had everybody astounded at my vision and clarity...so now y'all get this.

"abuse" will be determined solely by the moderators and administrators of this board and we reserve the right to take any action we deem necessary to prevent further abuse

Can we Stone the Blasphemers? It loked like a reasonable response in "The life of Brian"
Nick