Issues with RS

[ScottT1980]

Wow TG, I had no idea...

I have been fairly satisfied with the action of our mods although I have seen them interveen a bit early or perhaps a bit independently (in other words, taking action on his/her own with out first conferring with others). It is a fine line and so I understand the difficulties involved.

Nevertheless, I too have had some qualms with some of the recent goings on with certain threads. However, I perhaps use RS differently than others do, I try to recognize that, and move on. I can always make my way to rec.music.phish or rec.music.gdead on the usenet and reap the benefits and burdens of an unmoderated environment...

Take er easy
Scott T.

[dgasmd]

OK, maybe I live in my own cloud and don't see any of this. I don't even go into each particular forum where I may have interest. I go to the forums list and hit "view new" or something like that. It brings out all the threads with new posts in it. I can pick and choose from there. Half the time I don't even know in what forum they are in.

As far as off topic posts and such, I think I probably look at maybe 1 out every10,000. I am one of those that can't see why in a reef or marine forum there has to be the need to be talking about Saddam, the Spanish train bomb, or how many times do you have to go out to put out. That is jus tme though. I feel a lot of the times these kinds of postings can derail a site considerably. Case in point, RDO> that used to be the best site all around. RC couldn't hold a candle to it. Over the last year and a half, 90-95% of the posts have been in their version of the lounge. About 8-9 months ago I complained to the administrator that everytime you hit "view the new posts" all you see if lounge crap and why not exclude the lounge from it. They did and it made a world of difference. Now, since then, a new breed of arguments and threads have plagued that site. Every other post and thread is in "the industry behind the hobby" about the same 5-6 people arguing about the same crap over and over daily. Half the time they are the only ones that know what they are talking about. It would literally take a mirarcle to take that site back to where it was once.

Alberto

[ScottT1980]

Hard to believe that you don't know who the moderators are. From the first day that me and my group of friends from the JCT started posting here, they have been dogging our every step. Two or three of them post in every single thread where we show up.

I kind of see their point here bud. It is very easy to respond with a sarcastic comment when a given person asks a legitimate question. In fact, I enjoy the usual "wise-crack" every now and then. However, have you ever hung around someone that never gaves a straight answer? Well, the first 5 minutes are entertaining but then that person just gets old, especially when you are trully interested in a subject.

Some of the threads have just turned into a game of who can be the biggest smart- a$$ (and have sort of been hijaacked) and while I could easily join in the fun, I don't see that as the goal of RS. Instead, as I previously mentioned, I take that to the usenet...

I just fear that individuals that want to ask legitimate questions will hold back for fear of never getting a straight and informative answer.

With that being said, I have seen some pro-active work by the mods that personally, I probably would have let go. But, talks like this are good and hopefully some progress will come out of it instead of ruffled feathers and hurt feelings.

Take er easy
Scott T.

[Curtswearing]

TG,

Ya just can't leave. I even went running around the internet looking for you to make sure you were here when we opened up.

I cannot speak for whomever moved that thread. It wasn't me. However, I move threads all the time, and once people have the opportunity to see this particular thread, I will move it to The Suggestion Box Forum.

There is a good reason why I categorize threads. If we don't categorize them, then the general forum fills up too quickly. That is problematic because current issues being discussed could easily be on page 2 of the general forum instead of page one. I also move threads for another reason. Most of you know me an my links. I have TONS!!! of them. Eventually it got to the place where I knew I had great information for someone but couldn't find it. There has to be some order to it.

I'm telling you my reasoning why I move threads. I have noticed that I'm inconsistent but a lot of that is due to tax season. I just don't always have enough time.

I can tell you that this job is harder to do than it looks. I'm always willing to listen to hear someone elses side. We may agree or disagree afterwards but at least people got to speak their minds.

[Travis]

First of all Tankgirl, I was not the one who edited that post. That was true the first time I told you that, and it still is true. So it sounds like you haven’t trusted me from the beginning.

Second of all, three people have been banned- one for his actions in the chat room several weeks ago, one who helped said ex-member gain control of our chat room, and recently, Trig, who was obviously intent on being banned and didn’t give me much of a choice IMO. Crak was not banned, he was sent a warning and decided not to be here anymore.

Third, I don’t know who moved the Robz thread, obviously one of our mods felt it was better suited to the Photography forum. If that was their decision, I stand behind it fully. Honestly, I don’t see why it matters, as the thread will appear on the home page and in public view. We do not do anything to try to boost any numbers around here, so you’re just plain wrong on that point.

This thread was moved to the Suggestion Box, because that’s where it belongs. It’s still on the home page as well.

Dingo, our moderators work very hard to keep this place a friendly site for all, and I am behind them 100 percent. I agree we could have handled the whole thing better, chalk that up to growing pains, as Teri and I have not been doing this for long. We are moving forward with some new guidelines, lessons we’ve learned from the whole thing, but that is between Teri, myself and the Mods. And in the end, the actions of a couple of the members in question did nothing but prove the mods right in their actions all along.

[mojoreef]

Well said Scott. Private messages, dogging, taunting are always a two-way street. And I think, in regards to all parties is something that none of us want to be involved in. The staff on the site have to respond to the complaints we receive from members. We try our best to do that in a fair and levelheaded manner. PM's are sent to some to explain why action was taken and what style of community this is, and what is acceptable and what is not. The person receiving the PM, has a choice to live within the guidelines or not. That's all up to them, nobody makes that choice for them. rs has a lot to offer and is a great community. That can be seen on an almost daily basis with people helping each other out, in all facets of the hobby and in some cases, real-life.
If you come here to ride the line and to continually not heed the warnings that you run the risk of being continually warned or ultimately banned. Seemed pretty black and white to me


MIke

[Travis]

I forgot to mention… I’m actually glad we’re having this discussion. It’s nice to know where the members stand on these issues, concerning moderation, editing, what’s appropriate and what’s not, etc. So please feel free to speak up, but we don’t want to see this thread turn into flaming- so far all have done a great job at diplomatically voicing their opinions, please try to keep it that way.

Travis

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by ScottT1980
I can always make my way to rec.music.phish or rec.music.gdead on the usenet and reap the benefits and burdens of an unmoderated environment...

This is the main point hit right on the head. The main purpose of this forum is for reef related information. There are other venues for other stuff.

Through the twenty years of coaching and volunteering in community service groups, I have discovered a few things:

1. You can't make eveyone happy.
2. 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
3. If you are willing to stand up and make a decision, be ready to get hit with a few tomatoes.
4. Most problems in life are due to a lack of communication and/or consideration.

I respect everyone here on this board. Our responsibility is to provide an environment where people of all ages are comfortable gathering information from the forums that appear on the home page. If someone wanders into the Off-Topic forum the PG-13 standard applies. The problem arises in that we cater to a wide spectrum of core values and what may be acceptable to one may be offensive to another. This forces us to realize we are not going to appeal to everyone.

Everyone needs to step back and consider the other person. If someone is asking you to moderate your behavior it is not necessarily an attack on you personally, but a consideration for a larger group of people.

TG, I am sorry to hear of your disatisfaction and it was probably me that moved the thread to the Photo Gallery - terminal anal retentivness. I did know it would remain on the home page.

It goes without saying that the members here are what make this board. We appreciate each and everyone of you. Please understand that we have to accomodate all of you individuals and that is a challenge. I know I can speak for all of the Moderators and Administrators in saying that they have flat busted their humps in an effort to serve you members.

If any one feels they need to contact me for any reason, please PM me any time.

[tankgirl]

Trav, If you tell me you didn't edit that post - I believe you and apologize for saying that you did. It hit me very hard, because it seemed like an abuse of power for a personal agenda. Again, I'm honestly sorry that I accused you and assumed you did that. The post wasn't important, but the idea that it was edited was.

Also, if you didn't move the Robz thread, I guess I owe you another apology for that too. I'm sincerely sorry.

The problem with moving a great thread to the slow forums is that things get shoved off the home page (and "Get New") in a matter of 3 hours or so. Most people here are like me, they only check in once a day and probably don't go thru every forum.

My big issues are about abusing power for a personal agenda that's not in the best interests of the forum. The mods need do their thing without personal biases or favorites. Some of my own issues have been brought up by others, I'm grateful for that. I don't want to make trouble, but have started letting things eat me up and my choices were to quietly leave or bring them out in the open in the hopes we can resolve them.

[dgasmd]

Listen TG, I have never been to CA, so don't make me buy a ticket in a rush

[Dingo]

1...2....3....4

LOL. 4 mods. Not quite a record. Did I miss any? Some of you guys are stealth.

We will not see eye to eye on this one. You state that you are just trying to make it nice here. I say that your over-zealousness created an inflamatory situation.

I guess that that is all that I have to say on the matter. See ya.

[tankgirl]

Alberto, you're a doll!

Craigy, Imo, the photography forum is for talking about the technical aspects of photography. Rob's tank thread is a showcase for his awesome tank and amazing corals. It's a thread that inspires us to new heights with our own captive bit of ocean. I can't think of any reason why it could be considered a thread about how to take photographs.

Dingo, I hope you stay a bit! Maybe we can get some honest answers and make a difference.

[Crakeur]

since I've been mentioned here, I will chime in (with some decorum I hope).

I was hit with several instances of mod requested editing. I responded to each pm and edited as requested. As dingo said, it got to a point where I felt that my requests for edit we being typed before I finished posting. Some of the stuff I edited I admit was a bit over the edge. Other stuff was absolutely fine.

The problem I saw was that it was ok for some people to discuss things like getting laid, sleeping naked or some other less obvious innuendos, while I was edited for poking fun at being edited.

So be it.

Travis was the last mod to contact me and he was upset. I think irate is a better word. He had removed part of my post as well as the sig line. He explained his reasons in as polite a manner as could be expected from someone who was as clearly p.o.'d as he was.

I responded that I wouldn't bother posting around here anymore since I felt that I was being watched and I assumed the mods were going to pore over every post, looking for something to nail me on.

Turth be told, I still see the hypocrisy in this thread and I'm glad it isn't just me that sees it (dingo excluded since he is a friend of mine).

Case in point. My sig was deleted without a request to remove it. However, and I will quote one of the mods mentioned in the post about my sig being deleted, "I detest censorship." My sig rings true more now than before.

This is a message board with many members however it seems to me that the majority of the "regulars," the ones who answer in as many threads as possible, are a very tight knit group. It isn't easy bringing in new people and you don't have to love everyone but you do have to treat everyone on an equal plane, at least until they earn the right to be treated as less than equal. Within 3 hours of my first post (which was an introduction of sorts) I was hit with pm number one, asking me what went down at nr. From that point on, I felt like every post I made was under scrutiny. Yes, I probably attempted to push some buttons because of this but I most certainly wasn't doing it all the time, which is how I was treated.

I'll leave it at that. I think tankgirl's concerns (and a few others) are warranted. Granted I haven't been around long enough for anyone to really care what I have to say but, as an outsider that was never really made to feel welcome, I can say that if you expect the site to grow and expand, you might want to work on the areas she's bothered by.

I have no ill will towards any of y'all. Mods doing jobs. Trying to do what they think is best for the community. However, I do think you need to take the community as a whole in mind, and not just the small clique that are your closer friends.

Peace.

[Curtswearing]

With tax season in mind, I gotta run. However, I WILL read all of your comments and take them to heart.

[logical]

wowza I only wonder how many are like me and completely can not bear to post anything at any board because of the DRAMA. (don't count this one )

Every single board used to be different, enjoyable, educational ....and most importantly each board had a personality.

To me, every board is becoming very homogenized over the last year. And I'll give my 2.5cents worth of an idea why I think that is.

BB users, whether they are the "responds to every post" kind, or the "lurkers" IMO are about 10-15% of the hobby...tops. The real- time sharing of information greatly sped up the learning curve about various tank issues, set-ups, and the myriad of situations that can arrise in a reef tank. And while numbers of members may have grown, numbers of actual contributors to sites didn't keep pace. It's still the same 10-15% of the hardcore hobbyists on the boards and they can only discuss the perils and triumphs of DSB's sooo much before other parts of their lives come into the mix. It's these other parts and personalities that begin clashing as even with emoticons, true inflections are lost in the typed word....and people take things way too personal.

Ok, I lost where I was going as the phone rang, but internet psychology is an obsession with me, so wanted to hopefully add a bit to this talk.

Love ya all, bryan