Got a female

[SalteeDogg]

Well I got another seahorse. Its a big kellogii thats a little bigger then my male. Will they still mate if the female is bigger? When introduced they checked each other out for awhile and even looked like they were kissing. I hope everything works out. This female is gorgous!!!

[panmanmatt]

They may mate, but may not. Your male is not a kelloggi so if your females definitely is then there is a good possibility that they won't cross breed.

Also I hope you QT'd the new female. The horses you are buying are not true captive specimens but rather they are raised in net pens in the open oceans/bays. From a health stand point you are buying a wild caught seahorse and all the bacteria/pathogens/parasites that come with them. This puts your existing horse at a huge risk, especially if they are of different species.

[lcstorc]

Some clear pictures would really help with the identification of the ponies. Matt is really good at identifying and keeping seahorses so some good pics could help him id them both for sure.

[SalteeDogg]

The male and female are bred right out of his store. They are not wild and both have are eating mysis. They wont leave each other alone as of right now. They keep hitching on each other.

[lcstorc]

From Seahorse.com
Specimens that are said to be Hippocampus kelloggi have only recently begun to appear here in the US within the last several months, and not much is known about these mysterious seahorses thus far. I can tell you that there has been considerable controversy and confusion regarding whether they are actually H. kelloggi or just ordinary H. kuda, as well as whether they are actually captive bred, merely pen-raised, or collected from the wild.

Here is what little information I have been able to compile regarding the genuine H. kelloggi:

Hippocampus kelloggi (Lourie, Vincent and Hall, 1999)

Common name: Kellogg's seahorse (US); Great Seahorse (Australia); Offshore Seahorse (Vietnam);.o-umi-uma (Japan)
Scientific name: Hippocampus kelloggi, Jordan & Snyder 1902
Synonyms:
Hippocampus suezensis

Maximum size: 11+ inches (28.0 cm).

Climate: subtropical to tropical, but primarily tropical

Distribution:
Red Sea and Indian Ocean: Tanzania (Zanzibar), Pakistan (Kurachei), India (Madras, Malabar);
Southeast Asia: Danang Sea, Philippines, China and Taiwan; Japan and Australia (southeast Queensland, north New South Wales, Lord Howe Island.

Meristic Counts:
Rings: 11 trunk rings + 40 tail rings (tail rings vary from 39-41).
Dorsal fin rays: 18 rays (varies from 17 -19) spanning 2 trunk rings + 1 tail ring.
Pectoral fin rays: 18 soft rays (varies from 17-19).
Morphometrics:
Snout length: 2.1 (2.0- 2.3) in head length. (The length of the snout fits into the length of the head only about 2 times. In others, this seahorse has a relatively long snout that measures about 1/2 the length of its head.)
Other distinctive characters:
Coronet: medium-high, with five short spines, and a distinctive high plate in front of the crown.
Spines: low and rounded, always blunt tipped, even in the youngest specimens which have better developed spines. Adults are relatively smooth bodied.
Key Features: a prominent cheek spine (long but rounded) that points backward slightly; a deep head with a thick snout; a slender body with a long trunk and noticeably thick rings, a long tail, and a prominent eye spy (fairly tall but rounded).
Adult height: 6-10 inches (15.0-25.0 cm).

Color and Pattern:
H. kelloggi is typically a pale seahorse with uniform coloration, often adorned with tiny white spots that coalesce to form vertical lines (Lourie at all, 1999). There is some evidence suggesting sexual dimorphism in this species, with the males being darker (brownish to black), while juveniles and females are sometimes lighter in coloration (cream or yellowish), often with pale saddles or patches (Kuiter 2000). The stallions also tend to be slimmer than the females (Coit, pers. com.)

Cultured specimens often exhibit a color pattern that is similar to H. kuda, featuring a yellowish to pale olive green background coloration sprinkled profusely with small dark spots.

This is a very slender seahorse with a long trunk, a long tail, and a thick snout that tends to flare out at the tip (Kuiter 2000)

Natural History:
Very little is known about the life history or behavior of this large slender seahorse, except that it is primarily a deepwater seahorse (> 66 feet or 20 m deep) that is often found well offshore over soft, muddy bottoms (Kuiter 2000).

I have never worked with the species, so at the present, I cannot even tell you if it produces pelagic or benthic fry, or how long the gestation period for the species may be, but now that H. kelloggi is being cultured in large numbers, that information should be forthcoming soon.

Preferred Parameters:

Hippocampus kelloggi should do well under the same conditions as other tropical seahorses. The H. kelloggi keeper should maintain their seahorse tank within the following aquarium parameters:

Temperature = range 68°F to 78°F (20°C-25°C), optimum 75°F (24°C).
Specific Gravity = range 1.022 - 1.026, optimum 1.0245
pH = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = < 20 (ideally 0-10 ppm)

Suggested Stocking Density:
When fully-grown, this is a very large seahorse with a recommended stocking density similar to other giants such as H. abdominalis and H. ingens: one adult seahorse 2-3 years old per 57 liters (15 gallons) or one pair of 6-month old young adults per 15 gallons (57 liters).

Discussion:

H. kelloggi can easily be confused with H. kuda, which is another large, smooth-bodied tropical seahorse with similar coloration. Upon close examination, however, it is not difficult to distinguish between the two. H. kelloggi has a slimmer body build than kuda, with a more slender profile due to its exceptionally long trunk, as well as a longer tail, and the coronets of these two species are quite different (Lisa Coit, pers. com.). The small spines that form the 5-pointed crown on H. kelloggi are nothing like the low, rounded coronet of H. kuda, which may have broad flanges and overhang at the back, but is not at all spiny.

Captive-bred-and-raised Hippocampus kelloggi have only recently become available in the US and very little is known about their behavior. Hobbyists who keep captive raised H. kelloggi tell me that they tend to be real bottom huggers that rarely perch higher up then about 4 inches above the bottom (Coit, pers. com.). Their behavior in that regard is said to be similar to the Cape seahorse (H. capensis), an estuarine species that always orients to the substrate and is notorious for its bottom-hugging behavior. I'm told that they have a big appetite and feed aggressively on frozen Mysis, and are almost fearless in the aquarium -- flaunting themselves in the open, never hiding, and not at all shy or retiring (Coit, pers. com.). They haven't been in the hobby long enough to draw any firm conclusions regarding their hardiness or adaptability to aquarium conditions.

When courting, H. kelloggi stallions perform the usual pouch displays (Ballooning and Pumping) in which they inflate their brood pouches with water in an effort to impress the females with the awe-inspiring dimensions of their fully inflated marsupium.

New arrivals may alarm their keepers with their propensity for performing unusual color changes, in which they exhibit pale patches in various places on their body for short periods before reverting to their normal coloration again just as suddenly (Coit, pers. com.). These lighter patches can appear almost anywhere on their body, from head to tail, and are typically not symmetrical but rather confined to one side of their body only (Coit, pers. com.). This can be disturbing to the uninitiated, since depigmentation and localized loss of coloration are often signs of potential disease problems ranging from fungal and bacterial infections to ectoparasites that attack the skin and gills. In H. kelloggi, however, these unpredictable, transitory, patchy color changes simply appear to be normal behavior.

That's it -- that skimpy information is pretty much the grand total of what is known regarding H. kelloggi at this time, sir.

If the specimens at your LFS are indeed genuine H. kelloggi, then they have compatible aquarium requirements with H. erectus. But, as always, when bringing home any new fish from the pet store, it's very important to quarantine it rigorously for several weeks before you consider introducing it to your main tank.

The problem with obtaining seahorses from your LFS, regardless of whether they are captive bred or wild-caught, is that they are typically maintained in aquaria that share a common filtration system with all of the other fish tanks in the store. Of course, those other fish tanks house a wide selection of wild fish that have been collected from all around the world, and any pathogens or parasites those wild fishes may have been carrying can be transmitted through the common water supply to the seahorses. That makes fish from your LFS potential disease vectors for a whole laundry list of disease organisms and makes it mandatory to quarantine such specimens before they are introduced to your display tank.

[lcstorc]

From seahorse.org

[SalteeDogg]

Thanks for the write up!!! I will get pics asap to let y'all work your majic on identifying. The guy at the LFS says he wont touch wild horses because of the diseases and because he said they are harder to keep alive. He only had 4 and they are like 8 months old. He has had them at his house this whole time and just now took them to the store to sell. This female is a monster she is pretty big. He's specialized in this and sells quality horses but you also pay a little more but you get what you pay for.

[lcstorc]

Yes you absolutely do. I was once at a LFS who told me there was no such thing as captive bred seahorses. Alother store had seahorses in the same tank as a sohal tang.
Did you happen to buy them in FT Pierce? There is a very good seahorse breeding facility there who is vert trustworthy. Once my chiller gets hooked up that is where mine will come from.

[SalteeDogg]

Heres a pic. Not a very good one but can get the ideal. Na I didn't buy them their. I actually live in Fort Worth Texas (20 miles west of Dallas)

[Terri]

Very nice, let's see both of them i love tank pics too.

[SalteeDogg]

Well this morning I saw the male courting in circles in front of the female. She watched and then the male went and hitched on her. They stayed like that for about a minute then she started swimming around and the male wouldn't let go. It was so funny cause she was dragging him around trying to get him off I guess and he wouldn't let go. After he fell off he it looked like he started pouting. He wasn't moving or nothing just had his head down toward the sand.

[panmanmatt]

Originally Posted by SalteeDogg

The male and female are bred right out of his store. They are not wild and both have are eating mysis. They wont leave each other alone as of right now. They keep hitching on each other.

If they are bred out of his store then he should be able to tell you the correct species, especially if he specializes in seahorses. As I mentioned in your other thread, your male is not H. kelloggi but rather H. comes. And if the pic you posted in this thread is of your female then she is also H. comes.


I am not doubting you completely, I have just seen too many LFS give the song and dance about not selling WC seahorses when in fact their horses are indeed WC.

Their size does appear to put them in the 8-12 month old range. Raising them to that age should put them in the $100-125 each price range. That is why most breeders sell off their juvies in the 3-6 month range because it isn't cost productive to raise them much longer.


They are both very gorgeous looking seahorses no matter what their origin. Best of luck with them.

[SalteeDogg]

Well the female came from a different person. The store I got the female from is the only store everyone in the Dallas metroplex recommend for getting healthy captive bred seahorses. They both haven't showed any signs of anything yet so hopefully im good to go. They eat like HORSES and swim alot when the actinics are on. They are in the 75 with no fishes and just a couple safe corals. I do think she might be a different breed from the male. The male changes colors and the female stays black all the time. I dont know.

[panmanmatt]

Color means nothing. Trust me when I tell you that both pictures you have posted are of the same species, Hippocampus comes.

Unfortunately, the only commercial breeder of that species right now is ORA and they are not selling them that large. There are however a few importers bringing in WC comes and passing them as CB.

[SalteeDogg]

The thing is I know several people that knows the owner personally and they have been to his house where he has every kind of seahorse and breeder tanks. Thats the only reason why I drove 2 hours to this place..Most fish stores around here will tell you if they are wild caught. I called around on the phone and nearly every store was telling me "we only have wc but they are only $39.99"..Then thats when I started to do my research and found this guy who breeds them out of his house (owns a store) and wont even sell them til 6 months (worth more older). That is also 1 reason why everyone was saying to go to this place cause nearly all my other LFS deal with wc only. Trust me I did my research before jumping on the band wagon I am not the type of person that will just jump out and buy something without doing research.