Understanding Fish

[Paul B]

"Breeding Condition" for fish is a term that used to be used a lot but I don't hear it any more. It means that the fish are in such a good condition that they are capable of breeding. In a tank it is not easy to keep fish in this condition. Almost no fish in a store will be in this condition which is also the reason that you see so many animals for sale with ich. Fish in breeding condition almost never get ich or anything else (personal experience, don't beat me up).
Fish in breeding condition have scales that look like velvet and shiny, aware eyes. They rarely hide (except for some species) and are constantly cleaning nest sites (unless they are egg scatters) and chasing other fish away. They will also fight rival males.
These nuances are not always easy to see and may take years to fully understand.
If you do much diving you can immediately notice the differences in behavior in wild fish.
Fish are not evenly scattered in all tropical seas for a few reasons, one is obviousely that they can't get there but the other is water conditions like temperature, depth, food, salinity etc.
We can't do much for depth but we have control of the other variables.
Food is a big one that is vastly misunderstood. We can get most fish to eat almost anything. My moorish Idol would eat cardboard if I put some clam juice on it. Too many times we feel that if the fish is eating we are doing our jobs. We are not. Many people feed fish fillets, lettuce, crabmeat, shrimpmeat, beef heart, brine shrimp, and flakes. With the exception of brine shrimp and flakes, these foods are all fine for people but maybe not the best for fish. They will keep fish alive but will not get them into the best condition they can be in or breeding condition. Fish in the sea eat mostly fish. Whole fish, not fillets. Most of the nutrition in a fish is condensed in the organs. Almost all of the vitamin "A" is in the liver and all of the calcium is in the bones. They also eat whole shrimp, shell and all along with whole crab.
They do not eat beef heart (piranna maybe). Beef should never be fed to fish because the fats in beef need a higher temperature to be liquified making it hard to digest in a fish. Fish have no fat, just oils.
The best diet for salt water fish is live salt water fish. I know this is tough to get and almost no one has access to this food especially in the winter so it is important to get these missing nutrients into the fish. Vitamin "A" is especially lacking in aquarium fish and is a large part of their natural diet. A fish liver is about 25% vitamin "A".
I get tiny dried salt water fish from an Asian market and sometimes use these but they are like wood and need a lot of time to soften up.
I feed live California black worms every day and can get almost any fish into breeding condition in a couple of weeks with this food. I understand that they are not available in all parts of the country which is a shame since they are very common in NY. I have been feeding them to my fish since the early sixtees.
I also soak flake food or pellets in Cod Liver OIl which is essencially vitamin "A" and feed this about once a week.
For larger fish like groopers, morays, lions, and frog fish I sometimes inject cod liver oil into guppies to feed to these fish. I know that is a pain, but if you have a fish that only eats live fish and all you can get is guppies, it works.
Live newborn brine shrimp is an excellent food for smaller fish and sometimes the only food some fish will eat. I hatch these every day and fill my reef with them.
I know these methods work, I have not lost a fish to a disease in over twenty years and if there is no accident, they die of old age which may be 20 years in many fish.
Anybody have and opinions or comments?
Paul

[boozeman]

thanks for the info Paul

[tbittner]

How about these?

Menidia beryllina, Inland Silverside

and these?

Reef Nutrition - Live Mysid Shrimp

[Dentoid]

Thanks Paul for a long term well thought out hobbyists point of view. Field testing and "clinical" type experiences are just as important as scientific research.

I was under the impression that if it's not of marine origin, then it wasn't the best food source. This makes since to me, but I was wondering what your thoughts on this were.

BTW, have you seen this thread? Feeding Marine Fish and Marine Fish Nutrition there are some conflicting points to your post. Can you respond to them?

[kathywithbirds]

Cool info. And as far as what Terry said... mysis and silversides are a big part of my fishies' diets. I use zoe and garlic extract. Is there a significant difference between the oils they get out of the "fish vitamins" and the cod liver oil?

[DrHank]

I certainly can't argue with success. I've been into and out of saltwater fish many times in the past 20 years. Technology has changed quite a bit and I have to admit that, with the equipment currently available, it is easier to maintain a reef aquarium now than it has ever been.

I have to give a lot of credit to Paul. To be able to keep fish alive for that period of time in an aquarium is a credit to his skills. I've heard on several occasions from several individuals that it is possible to keep a fish longer in a well maintained aquarium than the fish would probably live in the wild.

[Reef Goddess]

Neat article! I had a school of 15 blue eyed cardinals in my 180 that were carrying eggs all the time.

I always emphasis the importance of feeding more than just flake food to my customers. I have my fish on a daily rotating diet of cyclopeez flake, spirulina, hikari megareef, frozen brine, whole krill, silversides, frozen daphnia.
About once every 2 weeks I bring in 4 or so live peppermint shrimp for my lionfish and peppermint hog to share and the occasional damaged damsel.

I think its very important to give all your pets a variety of foods, because if I was them I sure wouldn't want to eat pellet food everyday. Just like my cats get ground beef, pork, chicken, etc as well as their regular catfood.

I also think its unhealthy and have noticed that a lot of fish that are fed only pellet/flake, become unnatually fat.

[tbittner]

The reason I posted those links, which I also did in my chronicle, was because I wonder if live food would be more beneficial as food then frozen, packaged food would be. Of course, I also think it would depend on what food the food eats...

And it would be a LOT more "interesting" to watch when feeding the predator tank, not to mention, it would be better for them. Or would it? We always soak silversides and krill in selcon, garlic, and zoe before feeding, which would be pretty difficult to do with live food. But with live food, which is what these animals would eat in the wild, I think they would be getting exactly what they need to thrive.

questions, questions, questions...

[kathywithbirds]

Any comment on putting a touch of zoe/vits/selcon/garlic etc. directly into the water? I figure of course it's better if it's soaked into the food but does putting it into the water column have any benefits?

[Paul B]

I was under the impression that if it's not of marine origin, then it wasn't the best food source.

Dentoid, this is correct in almost all cases except for worms. Worms have Omega 3 oils, I don't know why and I am not sure how much blackworms have but I know earthworms have it. I have spoken to Lee a few times and I do know he is a very knowlegable guy and I agree with everything on that link you provided excpet for the thing about blackworms.
I know very well that if you feed your fish blackworms and all other factors equal, they will start to spawn. I have spawned blue devils, clowns, bangai cardinals and dominoes many times just by feeding these worms. The pair of Bangai's I have now continousely spawn. I know they are a frersh water animal but as I said worms are an anomely.
I agree with Lee about adult brine shrimp and all other fresh water foods. Thats why I inject Cod Liver OIL into feeder fish if I don't have salt water fish to feed. This is not to be done on a regular basis.

Kathy, it is a good Idea to add fish oil to their food but if you just soak frozen food with oil I think all of it will wash off in the water, thats why I said to soak flake and pellets in oil. It absorbs it and at least some of it goes into the fish. I can't really say if they need extra vitamins. It depends on what you are feeding and what type of fish it is.

Dr Hank. The oldest fish I kept was a brutlyd or cusk eel. It was in my tank for 18 years and I killed it by accident along with a bunch of old fish. I never directly fed it in all those years. My oldest fish now is a fire clown which is maybe 13 or 15

Reef Goddess it is important to feed a variety but the variety should be what that particular fish eats in nature. Many fish have very specialized diets and we should try to imitate that as much as possable. Mandarins eat pods, they eat just about only pods. If you have to suppliment their diet with something else, you won't have that mandarin long. They also must eat all day long. They don't do that just to be hard to feed, their dijestive tract is designed to utilize pods on a continual basis and they don't have the capacity to store much food. Seahorses are another specialized feeder, they will eat most moving prey (except worms) but they too must eat often. They don't really have a stomach, just a short tube and are unable to store any food. Seahorses need a constant food source.
I once patented a feeder for seahorses but it used live brine shrimp which now are replaced with mysis.
Small fish would be better
JoM Article: A New Feeding Strategy for Hippocampus sp., and other fishes, by Paul Baldassano

Terry soaking silversides in Selcon I think would just put an oil slick in your tank. It would be better to inject the feeder fish with the oils or whatever vitamins you want to get into your fish.
Live foods are always better if the live foods are healthy and well nourished. I keep a large supply of blackworms and even they are in breeding condition. I feed them and give them vitamins, Selcon and calcium. Your fish are what they eat.
Kathy you should not put vitamins or any other aditives in a tank with the objective of getting it inside your fish. It will just turn to nitrate or detritus.
I sometimes use flakes because I can soak them in cod liver oil or Selcon. I don't use flakes as a staple diet although they are much better now than they used to be. Fish will live on it but I doubt any fish will get into breeding condition on them. Someone called me last week and told me that her LFS said to feed all of her fish just romaine lettuce. I guess that LFS wants her to keep buying fish. Of course many fish will eat it, I eat it myself but herbifore fish need seaweed, not lettuce. Nori which is sold in any Asian market is almost the same price as lettuce. $2.00 worth of nori will feed a tang for a year.
Anyway, Have a great day and keep posting.
Paul

[Dentoid]

I very much like the idea of live foods and I hatch my own brine shrimp for feeding to my tank. It's funny to watch the clowns eating them, it looks like they are gulping at nothing. Do you raise your own blackworms? Do you have a source for purchasing them? How do you feed them to the fish, in a strainer? I found this vendor.

http://www.wormman.com/pd_california.cfm

[Paul B]

Dentoid, you can't use a worm feeder in salt water. The worms only live for a few seconds but are eaten before they hit the bottom. I have always fed my fish with a thing that is something like a turkey baster but larger. It is really a rubber bulb with an acrylic tube attached. I use it for everything from feeding to blowing off rocks.
My blackworms breed but I don't breed them in quantity because they are very plentiful here in NY and very cheap. $2.00 worth lasts me about two weeks. I know they are not available in all parts of the country.
They are sold with instructions to keep them in the refrigerator but I believe this is a mistake. They will constantly lost value like this. I keep them in a 2 gallon tank wirh about an inch of water and an airstone. I feed them flakes or pellets and they last indefinately. You can get them on line but I think you have to buy a large quantity.
Paul

[BarbMazz]

Paul, please explain what you mean and how you "inject" the feeder fish.

Very interesting reading. Thanks for posting your experiences!

[cracker]

Paul B,I fish recreational & have access to whole fresh fish. Inshore Species such as Seatrout Red drum ,Flounder ,Silver mullet etc. Also offshore species like Snapper ,Grouper , migratory fish like Mackerels & Bluefish etc. Would You consider the organs & roe of these fish a good source? Would you freeze 1st? In an other post, You suggested that marine animals, sponges, inverts ,fish from temperate & tropical waters may not be safe as they carry parasites & diseases that a cold water fish wouldn't. Thanks!

[kathywithbirds]

Would you know of a comprehensive list of what specific species eat? One can always find a list of recommended foods for fish you purchase at LFSs geared toward the hobbyist, but how about one that lists what they eat in the wild?