Refugium Mandarin

Clown-lover · 07-27-2007, 01:10 PM

What is a refugium and how do you build one? I am thinking of starting a 10 gallon mandarin only reef tank. I need to build up the copods. I heard that a refugium helps?

I know you need 100lbs of live rock ect ect. I like a little challenge.

DaveK · 07-27-2007, 03:35 PM

Your tank, assuming the 10 gal is correct, is much too small for a mandarin. Usually you need about 50 gal of reef system for each mandarin you want to keep. They usually require massive amounts of pods to survive, although I have sometimes gotten them to feed on frozen blood worms and live black worms.

The other problem you have is that mandarins will fight among themselves, so you need that large and so they cab get away from each other.

Yes, a refugium will help a lot to increase pod production.

Dentoid · 07-27-2007, 04:21 PM

This is an interesting concept! You acknowledge that 100lbs of LR is needed to successfully have a Mandarin and that a refugium is also needed. Your refugium will need to be 4-5 times bigger than your 10 gallon Mandarin tank to house that much LR. This is opposite of most hobbyist's set ups.

BoomerD · 07-27-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clown-lover

What is a refugium and how do you build one? I am thinking of starting a 10 gallon mandarin only reef tank. I need to build up the copods. I heard that a refugium helps?

I know you need 100lbs of live rock ect ect. I like a little challenge.

You say you like a little challenge...but I doubt the mandarin does. You'll find that the folks on this site are more about what's best for the fish than about what you want.
I'll disagree with Dave, only in the size of the tank recommended for mandarins...the MOST COMMON recommendation for a mandarin is a 100 gallon tank with copious amounts of live rock (over 100 lbs) and a very stable pod population.
Yes, OCCASIONALLY, a mandarin will adapt to eating prepared foods, but they're the exception, not the rule. MOST mandarins placed in small tanks just waste away and slowly starve to death.

Clown-lover · 07-28-2007, 04:10 AM

I am going to keep one Mandarin.

It seem to me like a Mandarin would eat gallons of pod in a day.

I sure you can buy pods, I don't care for money. If I have to buy more live rocks then so be.

I was planning on building a Refugium, for the purpose of breeding pods. After a couple months, asuming that there will be alot. Take a sponge and leave it there. Every day or so put the sponge in the main tank where the pod would be tranfer. Or scoop water for large pods.

Along with trying to breed pod the main tank.

Would this work? Or am I daydreaming?

Melanie · 07-28-2007, 04:32 AM

I'm just curious how you would fit 100 lbs. of live rock in a 10 gallon tank.

BigAl07 · 07-28-2007, 08:02 AM

I don't think you understand the whole concept. Even BUYING pods you wont be able to maintain enough via pods to sustain the mandarin. It's just very poor husbandry to go into this setting yourself up for failure and ultimately a very slow and torturous demise to a beautiful creature. Wait until you have a MUCH larger and well established tank. By that time your pop-pulation will be developed enough to sustain your new friend. If done properly a mandarin can live for years and be a great pleasure to watch. Don't rush into this and allow it to merely starve over a few months.

Allen

kyrie_eleison · 08-03-2007, 09:00 AM

interesting topic.

Clown-lover,

I think before you take on a challenge, you really need to consider learning about the species and their food supply. A refugium is a nice feature to have it serves a couple of different purposes.

First off, mandarins are HARD to take of (to an extent). The majority of the ones available only eat pods (copopods, maybe isopods and amphipods). That is pretty much their entire diet in addition to the fact that they have an extremely HIGH metabolism; so day and night they are looking for food. IF you find a lfs that has a mandarin that EATS frozen food...you'll pay an arm and a leg for it. And believe me, it's worth it. I was in Petco a while back and this idiot working their told me their mandarin eats frozen brine shrimp and they only wanted $14 bucks for it. Obviously he knew nothing; come to think of it, he knew less than nothing and the very fact that he refused to feed the mandarin in front of me told me everything. If your lfs has one that eats frozen food; you'll most likely pay at least $30 bucks.

Second, a refuge is a nice a feature even if you don't have a mandarin but it would be worthless if all you're doing is treating a 10 gallon. A good rule of thumb is to place a mandarin in a 100+ gallon tank with a refugium. HOWEVER, it is possible to keep one in a 55 gallon plus refugium BUT, it will take some work and it'd be risky; meaning, there can't be anything else in the tank that predates on pods other than the mandarin itself.

Lastly, before you even consider buying a mandarin...you need to set up this 55 or 100+ gallon tank and let it MATURE for at least 6 months if not a year. You can keep other fish in it ahead of time but trust me; you'll be disappointed if you get too far ahead of yourself with a mandarin. Trust me, I know. Maturing the tank grants you with a nice population of pods.

I know this explanation is long winded but this is good advice from someone who has failed as often as he has succeeded and experience can teach us a great deal.

Techno-Vicki · 08-03-2007, 09:35 AM

Each of the posts above have some very valid points. You will end up killing the madarin in a ten gallon. When I first go into the hobby, I saw a mandarin and fell in love. It is now the symbol for my small reef business; however, I was warned by my LFS that I could not do it without the proper set up. I was very happy with that advice. I waited 6 months and bought a used tank set up that had one. You can do 1 in a 55 with a refrugium, but I would not go any smaller. Here is a video of my mandarins in my 125 - they are and always wil be my favorite fish. Click on either video. Flash of fire is exclusively mandarins and the other is more of a tank community with mandarins dancing in the end.
http://www.murrayproductions.org/Ree...RM_videos.html

Don't give up on the idea, just slow down and do it right - they are truely amazing fish.

Vicki

caitrina · 08-03-2007, 01:04 PM

Know what Clown Lover, I have been wanting a mandarin for awhile now and I have had my tank set up for a little over a year so I am going to start a new thread and see how much info we can get together on this. Perhaps with the right answers we can both learn from it.

AdvanceAquatics · 08-03-2007, 03:24 PM

i agree with the above and dont take anyone the wronge way- I love RS-everyone here really wants to see you do well and your reef to bloom. I wish RS was my LFS.

needless to say the best thing to do is read as much as you can! you will answer most of your own questions.
And dont feel bad to have to wait...I BEEN WAITING, But I am in love with them so i want nuthing less then the best for what I love...

07-27-2007, 01:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Clown-lover Tunicate Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 20 View Gallery Karma Komment	Refugium Mandarin What is a refugium and how do you build one? I am thinking of starting a 10 gallon mandarin only reef tank. I need to build up the copods. I heard that a refugium helps? I know you need 100lbs of live rock ect ect. I like a little challenge. __________________

07-27-2007, 03:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
DaveK Neon dottyback Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philadelpahia, PA Posts: 648 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Refugium Mandarin Your tank, assuming the 10 gal is correct, is much too small for a mandarin. Usually you need about 50 gal of reef system for each mandarin you want to keep. They usually require massive amounts of pods to survive, although I have sometimes gotten them to feed on frozen blood worms and live black worms. The other problem you have is that mandarins will fight among themselves, so you need that large and so they cab get away from each other. Yes, a refugium will help a lot to increase pod production.

07-27-2007, 04:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Refugium Mandarin This is an interesting concept! You acknowledge that 100lbs of LR is needed to successfully have a Mandarin and that a refugium is also needed. Your refugium will need to be 4-5 times bigger than your 10 gallon Mandarin tank to house that much LR. This is opposite of most hobbyist's set ups. __________________ Scott Dentoid's Reeforama

07-28-2007, 04:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Clown-lover Tunicate Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 20 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Refugium Mandarin I am going to keep one Mandarin. It seem to me like a Mandarin would eat gallons of pod in a day. I sure you can buy pods, I don't care for money. If I have to buy more live rocks then so be. I was planning on building a Refugium, for the purpose of breeding pods. After a couple months, asuming that there will be alot. Take a sponge and leave it there. Every day or so put the sponge in the main tank where the pod would be tranfer. Or scoop water for large pods. Along with trying to breed pod the main tank. Would this work? Or am I daydreaming? __________________

07-28-2007, 04:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
Melanie Golden Moray Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 2,120 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Refugium Mandarin I'm just curious how you would fit 100 lbs. of live rock in a 10 gallon tank. __________________ My Reef Journey Latest Recap My Videos My Flickr Photos Pres. of Dork Club I love ScubaDrew and North East Coral! Read why HERE...

07-28-2007, 08:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,612 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Refugium Mandarin I don't think you understand the whole concept. Even BUYING pods you wont be able to maintain enough via pods to sustain the mandarin. It's just very poor husbandry to go into this setting yourself up for failure and ultimately a very slow and torturous demise to a beautiful creature. Wait until you have a MUCH larger and well established tank. By that time your pop-pulation will be developed enough to sustain your new friend. If done properly a mandarin can live for years and be a great pleasure to watch. Don't rush into this and allow it to merely starve over a few months. Allen __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

08-03-2007, 09:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
kyrie_eleison Has been struck by the ban stick Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 273 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Refugium Mandarin interesting topic. Clown-lover, I think before you take on a challenge, you really need to consider learning about the species and their food supply. A refugium is a nice feature to have it serves a couple of different purposes. First off, mandarins are HARD to take of (to an extent). The majority of the ones available only eat pods (copopods, maybe isopods and amphipods). That is pretty much their entire diet in addition to the fact that they have an extremely HIGH metabolism; so day and night they are looking for food. IF you find a lfs that has a mandarin that EATS frozen food...you'll pay an arm and a leg for it. And believe me, it's worth it. I was in Petco a while back and this idiot working their told me their mandarin eats frozen brine shrimp and they only wanted $14 bucks for it. Obviously he knew nothing; come to think of it, he knew less than nothing and the very fact that he refused to feed the mandarin in front of me told me everything. If your lfs has one that eats frozen food; you'll most likely pay at least $30 bucks. Second, a refuge is a nice a feature even if you don't have a mandarin but it would be worthless if all you're doing is treating a 10 gallon. A good rule of thumb is to place a mandarin in a 100+ gallon tank with a refugium. HOWEVER, it is possible to keep one in a 55 gallon plus refugium BUT, it will take some work and it'd be risky; meaning, there can't be anything else in the tank that predates on pods other than the mandarin itself. Lastly, before you even consider buying a mandarin...you need to set up this 55 or 100+ gallon tank and let it MATURE for at least 6 months if not a year. You can keep other fish in it ahead of time but trust me; you'll be disappointed if you get too far ahead of yourself with a mandarin. Trust me, I know. Maturing the tank grants you with a nice population of pods. I know this explanation is long winded but this is good advice from someone who has failed as often as he has succeeded and experience can teach us a great deal.

08-03-2007, 09:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
Techno-Vicki Dancing Mandarins Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sanger, CA (on Kings River) Posts: 1,071 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Refugium Mandarin Each of the posts above have some very valid points. You will end up killing the madarin in a ten gallon. When I first go into the hobby, I saw a mandarin and fell in love. It is now the symbol for my small reef business; however, I was warned by my LFS that I could not do it without the proper set up. I was very happy with that advice. I waited 6 months and bought a used tank set up that had one. You can do 1 in a 55 with a refrugium, but I would not go any smaller. Here is a video of my mandarins in my 125 - they are and always wil be my favorite fish. Click on either video. Flash of fire is exclusively mandarins and the other is more of a tank community with mandarins dancing in the end. http://www.murrayproductions.org/Ree...RM_videos.html Don't give up on the idea, just slow down and do it right - they are truely amazing fish. Vicki __________________ AKA - "Speedy" Extreme Reef Addition Videos of Mandarins, reef tank, and "His Majesty's" DIY water changer http://www.murrayproductions.org/Ree...RM_videos.html "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." - Henry Ford (1863-1947)

08-03-2007, 01:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
caitrina Golden Moray Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somewhere in Florida Posts: 2,588 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Refugium Mandarin Know what Clown Lover, I have been wanting a mandarin for awhile now and I have had my tank set up for a little over a year so I am going to start a new thread and see how much info we can get together on this. Perhaps with the right answers we can both learn from it. __________________ A reef tank is like a potato chip, you can't have just one! Chronicles Cat's Healing Gift: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ling-gift.html Cat’s 90 Gallon Toy: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...allon-toy.html 24 G Mystery Pod: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...stery-pod.html

08-03-2007, 03:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
AdvanceAquatics Ricordea Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lumberton NJ Posts: 197 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Refugium Mandarin i agree with the above and dont take anyone the wronge way- I love RS-everyone here really wants to see you do well and your reef to bloom. I wish RS was my LFS. needless to say the best thing to do is read as much as you can! you will answer most of your own questions. And dont feel bad to have to wait...I BEEN WAITING, But I am in love with them so i want nuthing less then the best for what I love...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)