I Have Givin Up On Tangs!

[kyle1284]

i cant seem to keep tangs... today i found my yellow tang on the bottom of the tank just laying on its side letting the crabs do their work... donno what happened, he ate yesterday and was swimming around... when i turned off the lights he laid on his side for a little bit but then went swimming around... just a couple months ago i lost my powder blue...so now it begins again... finding a fish that is hardy and flashy at the same time. 4 weeks ago i had 2 false clowns die on me... everything was normal? ... can anyone help me out or have any suggestions as to what could have happened to him, them or what is going on that i dont know about in my tank... and suggestions as to a flashy hardy fish... thanks...

ammonia 0
trates 0
trites 0
calcium 390
phosphates barley there
alk is a LITTLE low
ph 7.9 or 8.0

[Woodstock]

How are the fish acting prior to death? Breathing rapidly? Any spots? Were they darting or scratching?
Your tank may have a parasite? I suggest you let it go fallow for 6-8 weeks (the parasites will starve) and then quarantine all new fish in a cycled hospital tank (10-20 gal) for several weeks prior to adding them to your main display. You can treat/medicate the fish in the QT if necessary.

Another issue could be low oxygen. Your signature states you have two fluval filters. Do you have a skimmer? Is the water's surface turbulent? Remember that oxygen is absorbed/co2 released at the water's surface so creating waves/ripples or splashing (water falling down pipes into a sump), etc. are critical to the necessary gas exchange.

In my 120 reef, I not only have a large skimmer that is bubbling like crazy, and a lot of plumbing to/from the sump where the water splashes through, but I also have two korallia #3 powerheads pointed at the water's surface. This water/air mixture is extremelly beneficial to the oxygen/co2 balance in my reef. You may need to ensure that your reef is getting enough gas exchange.

[kyle1284]

i have a remora pro w/ the prefilter...and there really is no rippling going on... smooth as glass... and i did notice that he was breathing rather rapidly last night... but my foxface and 3 dams have not had any trouble with rapid breathing... are tangs more likely to succumb no oxygen exchange first?

[Woodstock]

Tangs do contract ICH easily. ICH can attack the gills first and show no other outward signs but you probably would have seen them scratching.

Are you certain the foxface or the damsels did not harrass the tangs? The foxface could have stung the tangs?

[leebca]

I'd be concerned you had good enough circulation. A 75 gallon reef should be getting about 15+ turnovers per hour. That is, more than 1100 gph. If you have a sump and refugium, even more gph would be expected.

I would implement a quarantine procedure on all wet life going into the system. These are good reads on that if you care to do some reading:
An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
A Quarantine Procedure

As Woodstock suggested. . .Get all fish out of tank into a hospital tank for close(r) observation. Let the main tank go fishless no less than 6 weeks. Then I'd be interested to know:
The sizes of the living and dead fishes?
How old is your system? When did it originally cycle?
Does the gallonage (75) include the volume from the sump and any refugium?
What kind of substrate (or none) are you using? How thick?
Do you use carbon, skimmer, mechanical or other chemical filtration?.
Foods you use and feeding schedules.
How are you acclimating the fishes – what procedure?
Where are you getting your fish and marine life from? (online, LFS, friend, or ?)
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Water parameters – please give actual numbers (salinity or sp. gr. & range, temperature range)
Do you see any of the following in your system: hair algae; micro algae; cyanobacteria growths (red slime algae); dinoflagellate (zooxanthellae) growths; brown algae; diatom growth; slimes; off-colored patches on rock or substrate that are not coralline; etc.?
Water changes (how much and how often).
What is your source water? (Tap water, RO water, DI water, RO/DI, distilled, etc.)
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks.
Maintenance schedule. What have you done lately?

Fishes can die from an 'off' acclimation up to 6 months after getting in your aquarium. It is more important that most people think. This is the acclimation procedure I use:
Fish Acclimation Procedure

[kyle1284]

i would actually watch them graze and eat together... im just confused ...and i never saw any scraching just wish i knew what was going on and take care of the problem

any reccomendations for a hardy flashy fish?

[lcstorc]

With the low ph I would also expect lack of oxygen as a possibility. Usually high co2 will give low ph. I am confused however why it is only the tangs. Powder Blues are notoriously hard to keep so that one is not much suprise but yellows are usually very tollerant of everything.
I guess the bottom line is I have no idea. Maybe I will think of something in a bit.

[BoomerD]

Gotta ask, do you quarantine ALL your fish for 4 to 6 weeks before putting them in the display tank? If you don't, you chance adding parasites and diseases with each new fish. Personally, I don't care how nice the LFS is, or if they tell me they quarantine ALL fish, (most don't, or only for a few days) EVERY fish that went into my display tank went through a MINIMUM of 4 weeks in quarantine.

[tbittner]

I have two beautiful tangs, a purple and a hippo, and the hippo would scratch herself on the rocks. I started soaking the food in a mixture of Seacon, Garlic (kent marine extract), and Zoe. Within a week, she stopped itching and all the fish actually have more vibrant color. I soak ALL feedings in this combo. I also give them a seaweed treat soaked in that combo.

Also, position a powerhead towards the surface of the water and point it up so it makes waves/ripples on the surface. Using these things, I'd try again BUT definitely quarantine before adding to the tank. Make sure you have a powerhead creating a rough surface of the water in the quarantine tank too.

[kyle1284]

no i dont QT them... dont have one setup...yet.... i have an old fuvial 105 that i used on a 20 gal freshwater set up... i do have some sponges that i use to trap the bubbles that the skimmer throws out it has been sittin in there for a month and a half.... do u think if i take 10 gallons of the tank water on the next water change and 10 gallons of salt water made w/ the sponge that has been in the pre filter to trap bubbles into the 105 and bam... should be alomst a instant cycle right?

[tbittner]

The way I understand it, the sponge will most likely have the nitrogen cycle bacteria on it but the water doesn't. If you aren't putting anything in the QT tank besides water, you don't need to cycle. When you cycle, you are cycling the rocks and substrate.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by kyle1284

i have a remora pro w/ the prefilter...and there really is no rippling going on... smooth as glass... and i did notice that he was breathing rather rapidly last night... but my foxface and 3 dams have not had any trouble with rapid breathing... are tangs more likely to succumb no oxygen exchange first?

Yes. Tangs will succumb to low oxygen first. They have a high metabolism and use the oxygen much faster then smaller fish. I suspect this is your biggest problem in keeping tangs. Like others recommended, Direct the return or power head towards the surface of the tank to cause a turbulent water movement.

[lcstorc]

Do not underestimate the need to cycle a qt. If uncycled the amonia will quiucky kill the fish. Also while a 20g is usually just fine for a qt keep in mind the size of the fish you are putting in it. I once made the mistake of putting 2 tangs in a 20g qt and it was not pretty. More water changes than you can imagine and I ended up cutting the qt short before they killed each other in the small tank.

[prow]

not sure when you tested the ph but that is not so bad for fish. test in the am about 10-11 before lights on to see how low it gets. for some reason i am thinking cyanide may be the cause. are you getting all your fish from the same LFS?

[kyle1284]

Originally Posted by prow

not sure when you tested the ph but that is not so bad for fish. test in the am about 10-11 before lights on to see how low it gets. for some reason i am thinking cyanide may be the cause. are you getting all your fish from the same LFS?

no yellow tang did come from a different LFS here in huntsville... hmmm...and thanks for the QT info ill make sure not to do that...