Royal Gramma in QT with ich

[Jynx]

Being fairly new to reef keeping, I read alot about QT tanks before setting up my 75 gal display. I set up a 20 gal QT tank and got it cycled. It has a biowheel filter, a bak-pak skimmer and I placed 5 fish in it about 2 weeks ago. The fish are two juvenile engineer gobieis, a 6 line wrasse, a twin spot goby and a royal gramma. There is some sand from my display in shallow bowls sitting on the bottom for the twin spot. There are no invertebrates in the tank. I put in PVC pipe to make the engineers happier.

Two days ago the gramma began to keep its fins and tail folded. Today I can see white spots. I suspect marine ich. I'm glad I didn't give in to temptation and inpatiently just put these fish into my healthy display, but there is a problem...

What do I do now. I have heard of using a copper based treatment or treating with hyposalinity. I have no idea how to do the latter. All advice appreciated.

[DaveK]

Hyposalinity treatment is the gradual reduction of the SG of the water from a normal 1.025 to about 1.011. This process is done over several days. Ich can't survive in the low SG water. You'll need to maintain the low SG about 3 weeks for treatment, and 2 weeks beyond the point where you don't see a disease problem. After treatment you increase SG back to the normal 1.025.

[prow]

i perfer hyposalinity myself. IMO, first, to do this you will need a refractometer. you will want one of these anyway for regular use not just for this treatment. but you will need one for this. bring down you salinity in the QT slowly with water changes. for ich bring it down to 1.008 or 10ppt or slightly less. here are a couple links.

this one gives some good info on it.
Hyposalinity and Cryptocaryon irritans and other Treatment Choices

this one provides a good step by step process to follow.
ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment

I'm glad I didn't give in to temptation and inpatiently just put these fish into my healthy display,

karma to ya for that

[bluespotjawfish]

Don't forget to watch your pH very closely. With the drop in salinity, you could also get a drop in pH. Have some pH buffer on hand.

Good luck! Karma to your fishies!

[prow]

good point bluespot. also the temp effects your salinity and must be controlled. the second link i gave gives warnings about the temp and ph. and the salinity lowering fiqures estimates with 1/5 water changes is accurate, that is if you follow it.

[DrHank]

Listen to these folks Jynx. They know of what they speak!

[Jynx]

I find it amazing that marine fish can tolerate that level of hyposalinitiy. Seems to me that it would have to cause some degree of osmotic damage...
So nobody advocates treating with copper based preperations.

[prow]

Copper suppresses immune function and is highly stressful to fish. Copper is also toxic to fish, but to a lesser degree than with invertebrates. Administering a dose that is too high may kill the fish being treated. If the copper level is not high enough then the treatment will be ineffective. This necessitates testing the copper level twice a day and making adjustments as needed.

for me this is why no copper; more testing(pain to test 2x a day), more risks(copper treatment may be what kills the fish not ich, its very toxic), more money(meds and kits are not cheap either), after treatment fish are more likely to relapse because they never got a change to build antibodies(copper suppresses immune function), also with copper they are prone to secondary infections that copper has no effect on(because their immune systems are suppressed with copper). not that copper can not be use with good results or that is hard a treatment to use. its just you need to keep these things in mind. with hyposalinity you just set it up and let it ride keeping everything else normal. heck even microfauna(bacteria and algeas) can adjust to hyposalinity and keep the biofiltration going, not so with copper.

Originally Posted by Jynx

I find it amazing that marine fish can tolerate that level of hyposalinitiy. Seems to me that it would have to cause some degree of osmotic damage...
So nobody advocates treating with copper based preperations.

here is a explanatioin of the osmotic effects, how it helps them.

Marine teleost fish (higher bony fishes) maintain their osmotic concentration at about one quarter to one third that of sea water. In normal sea water, these fish have a tendency to lose water from their gills due to osmosis and also in their urine. Fish have to drink a lot of water to make up for the loss, however, as the water contains a lot of salt (35‰) they must remove the excess salt from their system. The sodium and chloride ions are secreted by the gills and magnesium and sulphates are excreted in urine. This is an active process and requires energy much like the energy required to keep warm blooded animals warm.

When fish are under stress, one of the processes that is affected is ion regulation. This means they have difficulty adjusting the concentration of ions (sodium, chloride, etc.). Lowering the salinity of the tank water makes the concentration of ions closer to that of the fish"s internal fluids and reduces the fish"s efforts to maintain the correct concentrations.

[Jynx]

Prow, thanks, very helpful info. I'm always fascinated by the physiology.
Unfortunately I have a confession to make. On the advice of my LFS (we use this stuff all the time, it works great, cures ich is 3 days, blah blah blah) I purchased a copper based treatment and dosed it into the tank. 24 hours later two of the fish which did not show any signs of ich were dead, the others seem to be doing well.
Impatience and lack of experience strikes again.