Project 58!! (Image intense) - Page 12

Maxx · 12-09-2004, 09:30 PM

I just tested the water temp again...still 77 F...This is with the mag 7 and skimmer running only. I just runed on the Iwaki 55RLT, but not the OM unit. I expect the temp will rise again back up to 82.4 degrees since I really doubt the OM unit transfers anyheat to the water as its driveshaft is made of a high quality plastic polymer.

This leaves me with a couple of options:

1...buy a chiller. This will expensive, but will be the most aesthetically pleasing solution. And I know it will work. No tweaking to get the temp set right, (outside of normal getting a new chiller set up), and precision in terms of water stability. In all honesty, this is the route I feel safest...I'm just hurtin for money right now...two months okay...Rocio's B-day 7 days before Xmas, and Xmas itself...not so much.

2...DIY a Franken-Chiller. I have an old dorm sized fridge downstairs in the basement busily collecting dust. Its ugly, (faux woodgrain anyone???), its dirty, but it can be cleaned and I think I can make a chiller from it...and it wont cost me $50.00 to do it. This will require some playing around to get flow rates down right ...or I'll just get a good heater. I think this is the way I will wind up going short term. I will eventually upgrade to a real chiller which will give me more of what I need.

3...Find a new closed loop pump that is pressure rated, but doesnt give off as much heat. The major downsides to this are that it will cost more money to buy the pump, (less than a chiller, but still more than I want to spend right now) and it would quite possibly mean I would have to redo some of the closed loop plumbing. Not something I'm really looking forward to doing right now.

Nick

Spooda420 · 12-09-2004, 09:59 PM

nick,

save your pennies, use this time to drop in your fishies, get your ALK/CA right for SPS let the bioload build up, then in a few months add the chiller. fishes can live at 77-80 no problems run it light less for 2-3 months or until you can get a chiller, weather in STL is only gonna get colder, just a suggestion.

its amazing how much change you build up in 2-3 months I bought my display tank with change i saved for 2- 3 years.

or go to the boat and risk it, at the black jack tables...

looks good BTW, didnt some one say nothing good happens fast in a reef tank?

Scooterman · 12-09-2004, 10:07 PM

Question Nick? The Iwaki 55RLT is it external? I was just wondering how it transfers heat if so?

mps9506 · 12-09-2004, 10:14 PM

I'm suprised that pump heats up the water that much, isn't it a fan cooled pump if I remember right?

Maxx · 12-09-2004, 10:52 PM

Yeah, its a fan cooled pump, and it is external. I'm slowly isolating things to see what is causing the heat spike. But as I said earlier, I'm assuming its the pump based on the way the OM is constructed.
Chris, I've thought about doing just that...but I want to nail down every possible solution first.
BTW, you gonna suck it up and make it to the meeting on Sat?

Nick

Spooda420 · 12-09-2004, 10:55 PM

nick,

drinks+late night+im really lazy sometimes= maybe making it, maybe not. I'll try I want to talk to you and see the tanks as well. I'm sure I'll hung over a bit.

mps9506 · 12-09-2004, 11:01 PM

Is the pump under the stand along side the sump, I could go back and look at the pics, but I'm lazy!

perhaps it is just heat built up under the stand causing the problem... Then a simple exhaust fan in the stand could help... Maybe...
Just typing as I think,, very dangerous...
Mike

Maxx · 12-09-2004, 11:14 PM

No its not under the stand Mike...It sits on a small shelf above the sump, behind the tank.

The shelf is just above the Euro-Reef collection cup in this photo./...kinda tough to see....easier in the second pic.

Nick

Craig Manoukian · 12-10-2004, 02:17 AM

Nice tape job Nick!

Maxx · 12-10-2004, 07:13 AM

lol @ craig...

Temp is currently at 80.6. The Iwaki, mag 7, and skimmer are running. Tonight I will dbl check the temp, and turn on the OM unit.

Nick

Maxx · 12-13-2004, 02:54 AM

I hooked up the halides tonight and turned them on. They are dual 250 watt Double Ended (DE) bulbs. I will also be running 190 watts of VHO actinics for color supplementation. I dont think they will add anything that the MH's wouldnt, temperature wise.
The lights have been running for about 6 hours and the temperature has risen to 82.4 degrees F. The house is at 69 degrees F so I think the ambient air temp has a larger effect on my tanks temp than I had hoped or expected.
I'm going to be figuring out a way to DIY a chiller from the old dorm fridge I have in the basement. I just want to lower the temp about 5 degrees or so and then use a heater to maintain the correct temp, (at least until I can afford to buy the right chiller).
I'm evaporating somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 gallons a day.

In the Things that make you go DUH!!! department:
I've been trying to figure out where a micro bubble problem was coming from since I moved the tank inside the house from the garage. The bubbles were coming from the OM unit and were all over the place...really annoying, I figured that it was just because the tank was new, and would eventually go away.
Wasnt happening. In fact, I could tell it was getting worse.
So I shut down the OM unit and pump and tried to figure out what the problem was... Checked to make sure the closed loop had enough water and wasnt causing some cavitation...everything was fine in there.
Turned it all back on...problem was worse than when I tunred it all off and looked inside the priming hook....wait a minute??? All I did was open the priming hook cap! Leaving the pump running, I unscrewed the priming hook cap, (seen in this photo...the part sticking up to the right of the Loc-Line return Y...)

And suddenly bubbles starting flooding out from the closed loop....the priming hook from the closed loop intake started sucking air horribly.....
DUH!!!!?????!!!! This is the INTAKE...its sucking air stupid!!!! Thats why there are so many micro bubbles!!!
It hadnt done this in the garage because I cranked it tight attempting to prevent a geyser of water all over my motorcycle in the garage when I was wet testing....
Took the cap off completely, wrapped the threads with teflon tape, and cranked it tight by hand.
Turned everything back on.......no bubbles!!
Yeah, I'm a genius.....
Tomorrow will be getting the light box handcrank together and then I will begin staining the lightbox support arms, and the dowel that the lightbox will hang from and will rise/lower from.

Nick

Craig Manoukian · 12-13-2004, 10:01 AM

Lookin' good Maxx. A true labor of love, eh?

strat · 12-13-2004, 10:39 AM

i know this sounds funny, but along the same lines as above, is your heater turning on at all? have you tried running the tank without it? just a thought

strat

Maxx · 12-13-2004, 11:18 AM

I dont even have a heater in the tank yet. This all due to ambient air temp (68-70 depending on whether or not I can keep Rocio away from the thermostat...In the summer, she wants this house to be ice cold...in the winter, she wants it no less than 75....cant win for losing!), pumps transfering heat, and the lights being on.
No heater needed right now.
Nick

Maxx · 12-13-2004, 09:11 PM

I've been as busy as Rocio would let me get on the tank today.....

Installed the dowel brackets today, cleaned of the little dorm fridge, bought a maxi jet 1200 to run water through tubing that will sit in the fridge, bought 100 feet of 1/2 ID tubing to sit in the fridge, plugged in the little fridge to see if it still works and how well it still works, (Froze a bottle of water in a couple of hours when placed on coldest setting), connected the American DJ PC-100A power centers today, and hung the ballasts for my MH's....And I took pictures of most of it.

Here is a close up of the dowel bracket.

I used a 1 3/4" hole saw to cut the hole. Heres a helpful tip those following along at home. When using a hole saw that uses a drill bit to get started, drill all the way through the wood, until the drill bit itself punches through, but not the hole saw. You can cut halfway through the wood with the hole saw if you like, but do not go all the way through with hole saw. Flip the piece over, place your drill bit in the hole it made from the other side, and cut from the other side of the piece. This time you're going all the way through the wood. In doing this, you avoid the wood splintering when the hole saw comes through. Its pretty ugly when that happens. This keeps that from happening.
In case thats really confusing to follow...drill halfway through with holesaw, all the way through with drill bit. flip piece over, line up drill bit into drill bit hole from the other side, and begin cutting. This should prevent any splintering. Its what I did here.

Here is a photo of the bracket with the dowel rod inserted. The dowel rod and the lightbox support arm still need to be stained and sealed. The hole is 1 3/4" but the dowel is only 1 1/4". I made the hole larger for two really good reasons. First, I wnated some room for the dowel to rotate with out binding up. Second, I only had 1 1/4" hole bits, and the 1 3/4" hole saw was the smallest one I had....nothing else would fit.

Nick

12-09-2004, 09:30 PM	#166 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	I just tested the water temp again...still 77 F...This is with the mag 7 and skimmer running only. I just runed on the Iwaki 55RLT, but not the OM unit. I expect the temp will rise again back up to 82.4 degrees since I really doubt the OM unit transfers anyheat to the water as its driveshaft is made of a high quality plastic polymer. This leaves me with a couple of options: 1...buy a chiller. This will expensive, but will be the most aesthetically pleasing solution. And I know it will work. No tweaking to get the temp set right, (outside of normal getting a new chiller set up), and precision in terms of water stability. In all honesty, this is the route I feel safest...I'm just hurtin for money right now...two months okay...Rocio's B-day 7 days before Xmas, and Xmas itself...not so much. 2...DIY a Franken-Chiller. I have an old dorm sized fridge downstairs in the basement busily collecting dust. Its ugly, (faux woodgrain anyone???), its dirty, but it can be cleaned and I think I can make a chiller from it...and it wont cost me $50.00 to do it. This will require some playing around to get flow rates down right ...or I'll just get a good heater. I think this is the way I will wind up going short term. I will eventually upgrade to a real chiller which will give me more of what I need. 3...Find a new closed loop pump that is pressure rated, but doesnt give off as much heat. The major downsides to this are that it will cost more money to buy the pump, (less than a chiller, but still more than I want to spend right now) and it would quite possibly mean I would have to redo some of the closed loop plumbing. Not something I'm really looking forward to doing right now. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

12-09-2004, 09:59 PM	#167 (permalink)
Spooda420 Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 483 View Gallery Karma Komment	nick, save your pennies, use this time to drop in your fishies, get your ALK/CA right for SPS let the bioload build up, then in a few months add the chiller. fishes can live at 77-80 no problems run it light less for 2-3 months or until you can get a chiller, weather in STL is only gonna get colder, just a suggestion. its amazing how much change you build up in 2-3 months I bought my display tank with change i saved for 2- 3 years. or go to the boat and risk it, at the black jack tables... looks good BTW, didnt some one say nothing good happens fast in a reef tank? __________________ 120 gallon, 100 gallon sump, GEO Calcium Reactor, Aqua C EV-400 Skimmer, 300 pounds of LR, Bare Bottom, 2 Tetra UV2 Sterilizers, 2 Tunze 6080 streams, 2 - 400 watt DE Metal Halides

12-09-2004, 10:07 PM	#168 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	Question Nick? The Iwaki 55RLT is it external? I was just wondering how it transfers heat if so? __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

12-09-2004, 10:14 PM	#169 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	I'm suprised that pump heats up the water that much, isn't it a fan cooled pump if I remember right? __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

12-09-2004, 10:52 PM	#170 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	Yeah, its a fan cooled pump, and it is external. I'm slowly isolating things to see what is causing the heat spike. But as I said earlier, I'm assuming its the pump based on the way the OM is constructed. Chris, I've thought about doing just that...but I want to nail down every possible solution first. BTW, you gonna suck it up and make it to the meeting on Sat? Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

12-09-2004, 10:55 PM	#171 (permalink)
Spooda420 Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 483 View Gallery Karma Komment	nick, drinks+late night+im really lazy sometimes= maybe making it, maybe not. I'll try I want to talk to you and see the tanks as well. I'm sure I'll hung over a bit. __________________ 120 gallon, 100 gallon sump, GEO Calcium Reactor, Aqua C EV-400 Skimmer, 300 pounds of LR, Bare Bottom, 2 Tetra UV2 Sterilizers, 2 Tunze 6080 streams, 2 - 400 watt DE Metal Halides

12-09-2004, 11:01 PM	#172 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	Is the pump under the stand along side the sump, I could go back and look at the pics, but I'm lazy! perhaps it is just heat built up under the stand causing the problem... Then a simple exhaust fan in the stand could help... Maybe... Just typing as I think,, very dangerous... Mike __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

12-09-2004, 11:14 PM	#173 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	No its not under the stand Mike...It sits on a small shelf above the sump, behind the tank. The shelf is just above the Euro-Reef collection cup in this photo./...kinda tough to see....easier in the second pic. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!) Last edited by Maxx : 04-13-2005 at 02:03 PM.

12-10-2004, 02:17 AM	#174 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,405 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Nice tape job Nick! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-10-2004, 07:13 AM	#175 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	lol @ craig... Temp is currently at 80.6. The Iwaki, mag 7, and skimmer are running. Tonight I will dbl check the temp, and turn on the OM unit. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

12-13-2004, 02:54 AM	#176 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	I hooked up the halides tonight and turned them on. They are dual 250 watt Double Ended (DE) bulbs. I will also be running 190 watts of VHO actinics for color supplementation. I dont think they will add anything that the MH's wouldnt, temperature wise. The lights have been running for about 6 hours and the temperature has risen to 82.4 degrees F. The house is at 69 degrees F so I think the ambient air temp has a larger effect on my tanks temp than I had hoped or expected. I'm going to be figuring out a way to DIY a chiller from the old dorm fridge I have in the basement. I just want to lower the temp about 5 degrees or so and then use a heater to maintain the correct temp, (at least until I can afford to buy the right chiller). I'm evaporating somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 gallons a day. In the Things that make you go DUH!!! department: I've been trying to figure out where a micro bubble problem was coming from since I moved the tank inside the house from the garage. The bubbles were coming from the OM unit and were all over the place...really annoying, I figured that it was just because the tank was new, and would eventually go away. Wasnt happening. In fact, I could tell it was getting worse. So I shut down the OM unit and pump and tried to figure out what the problem was... Checked to make sure the closed loop had enough water and wasnt causing some cavitation...everything was fine in there. Turned it all back on...problem was worse than when I tunred it all off and looked inside the priming hook....wait a minute??? All I did was open the priming hook cap! Leaving the pump running, I unscrewed the priming hook cap, (seen in this photo...the part sticking up to the right of the Loc-Line return Y...) And suddenly bubbles starting flooding out from the closed loop....the priming hook from the closed loop intake started sucking air horribly..... DUH!!!!?????!!!! This is the INTAKE...its sucking air stupid!!!! Thats why there are so many micro bubbles!!! It hadnt done this in the garage because I cranked it tight attempting to prevent a geyser of water all over my motorcycle in the garage when I was wet testing.... Took the cap off completely, wrapped the threads with teflon tape, and cranked it tight by hand. Turned everything back on.......no bubbles!! Yeah, I'm a genius..... Tomorrow will be getting the light box handcrank together and then I will begin staining the lightbox support arms, and the dowel that the lightbox will hang from and will rise/lower from. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!) Last edited by Maxx : 04-13-2005 at 02:04 PM.

12-13-2004, 10:01 AM	#177 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,405 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Lookin' good Maxx. A true labor of love, eh? __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-13-2004, 10:39 AM	#178 (permalink)
strat Tuxedo Urchin Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 293 View Gallery Karma Komment	i know this sounds funny, but along the same lines as above, is your heater turning on at all? have you tried running the tank without it? just a thought strat __________________ its a fish's life..... http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner2.gif

12-13-2004, 11:18 AM	#179 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	I dont even have a heater in the tank yet. This all due to ambient air temp (68-70 depending on whether or not I can keep Rocio away from the thermostat...In the summer, she wants this house to be ice cold...in the winter, she wants it no less than 75....cant win for losing!), pumps transfering heat, and the lights being on. No heater needed right now. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

12-13-2004, 09:11 PM	#180 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	I've been as busy as Rocio would let me get on the tank today..... Installed the dowel brackets today, cleaned of the little dorm fridge, bought a maxi jet 1200 to run water through tubing that will sit in the fridge, bought 100 feet of 1/2 ID tubing to sit in the fridge, plugged in the little fridge to see if it still works and how well it still works, (Froze a bottle of water in a couple of hours when placed on coldest setting), connected the American DJ PC-100A power centers today, and hung the ballasts for my MH's....And I took pictures of most of it. Here is a close up of the dowel bracket. I used a 1 3/4" hole saw to cut the hole. Heres a helpful tip those following along at home. When using a hole saw that uses a drill bit to get started, drill all the way through the wood, until the drill bit itself punches through, but not the hole saw. You can cut halfway through the wood with the hole saw if you like, but do not go all the way through with hole saw. Flip the piece over, place your drill bit in the hole it made from the other side, and cut from the other side of the piece. This time you're going all the way through the wood. In doing this, you avoid the wood splintering when the hole saw comes through. Its pretty ugly when that happens. This keeps that from happening. In case thats really confusing to follow...drill halfway through with holesaw, all the way through with drill bit. flip piece over, line up drill bit into drill bit hole from the other side, and begin cutting. This should prevent any splintering. Its what I did here. Here is a photo of the bracket with the dowel rod inserted. The dowel rod and the lightbox support arm still need to be stained and sealed. The hole is 1 3/4" but the dowel is only 1 1/4". I made the hole larger for two really good reasons. First, I wnated some room for the dowel to rotate with out binding up. Second, I only had 1 1/4" hole bits, and the 1 3/4" hole saw was the smallest one I had....nothing else would fit. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!) Last edited by Maxx : 04-13-2005 at 02:13 PM.

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