Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 32

Varga · 05-27-2008, 09:13 AM

Almost clear

JoJo · 05-27-2008, 09:17 AM

Hey Frankie, normally i would say just throw a subpanel in but it looks like its dated & it best IMO to get a new one to ensure the safety of the entire house not just the tank area. God forbid there's a electrical surge big enough to cause damage, the panel doesnt have a main breaker, that scares the H@#% out of me & i'm pretty comfortable with elctricity.

Varga, it'll probably run between $1-2K depending on the company & your area. i'm glad to hear the water was from splashing!!!

Varga · 05-27-2008, 09:43 AM

crap! maybe I'll just run a wire on the outside of the house and hack into an outlet in the bedroom from inside the wall and call it done. that would cost almost zero dollars

JoJo · 05-27-2008, 10:51 AM

or just tap into the outlet that you are currently using in the hallway for now

Craig Manoukian · 05-27-2008, 11:06 AM

Varga,

Awesome advice from everyone one on the siphon break for the returns, good job. Glad the laeak was splashing. Hope you find a safe low dollar solution for your lighting. The tank and system is just amazing, can't wait to see the progress over the next year, very nicely done!

Varga · 05-27-2008, 04:02 PM

Thanks Craig and JoJo.

still no leak BUT now I'm thinking don't all tanks eventually leak? what if it leaks in 18 months, when I have it the way I want it and then I'm completely screwed. I had an AGA that leaked in less than a year.
I'm looking at RC tank of the month and that thing is like 1" thick. Maybe there's a reason for that? I mean what do people do? have another tank up and running ready for the unexpected? I've done this whole project the cheap way so I can have the money for some nice sps corals. I'm not even gonna bother with softies or LPS so I think I need to seriously think about this long term.

Triggerjay · 05-27-2008, 05:46 PM

Ok, I edited your pic of the panel. The red circle is the main breaker for all your 110v in your panel. It feeds the top buss bars. Currently, you have a very un-even load. You have one breaker on one leg, and 4 breakers on the other leg. As previously stated, all your bottom breakers are 220v. Those will feed your clothes dryer, AC, and your range and hot water heater if they are electric. What I have circled in blue, is the cut wires from the breaker right next to it. That breaker is not in use, and could be used to feed a new sub panel if you choose to go that route. Do you see the little pink box I drew at the top of the box? That could be the home of your new breaker if you choose not to go the sub-panel route. (It will also help balance the load on your 110v) I would reccomend installing a 20a breaker in this position, and run #12 wire from this point, to near your aquarium, and run your lighiting off of this circut. You have several mains in your panel, instead of one main breaker. everything on the bottom of you box (should be the top of your box had it been installed correctly) is considered a main breaker. Now, you have one slight problem with this configuration, that being the bus bars for your 220v are always hot. This is very similiar to my bulldog push-a-matic panel. If you shut off the breaker circled in red, it will kill all power to the top 110v busses. You will then be able to install your new breaker, and run your wire. On your new wire, the black wire will go to your new breaker. The white wire, as well as the copper grounding wire, will both go to the neutral bar located on the bottom left corner of the panel. On the top 110v buss, you actually have room for three more breakers. You have lots of room in that panel! It will work great for what you are doing, and you have two choices on how to do it. Be leary of the two large black wires entering the panel from the bottom. These are hot, as well as the buss they are connected to all the time. If you do not have a main disconnect switch outside the panel, between this box, and the meter, there is no way to kill it without pulling the meter,... and this requires a permit to break the seal on the meter. so, shut of the breaker circled in red, install your new breaker, and wire it up unless of course you decide to go the sub panel route. BTW, for what its worth... it appears to be a square D QO panel..You will need to know this for purchasing a new breaker. If you would rather go the other route, and install a sub panel, let me know, and I can explain how to do that as well. It would be real simple with your current setup.

Jason

Hope this helps.

Triggerjay · 05-27-2008, 05:49 PM

One more thing... what size are the two bottom breakers on the right side of the panel? the one circled in red, and the one under it... Thanks

Jason

Craig Manoukian · 05-27-2008, 05:58 PM

Absolutely awesome help Jason!

Triggerjay · 05-27-2008, 06:03 PM

lol, Its releated to what I do for a living...

Jason

Craig Manoukian · 05-27-2008, 06:04 PM

I knew that Jason!

nikkipigtails · 05-27-2008, 07:24 PM

I'm so glad that your leak was just splashed water. It would really suck if you got this far and your tank was leaking. Are you finished with the aquascape? An arch would look really awesome going from the two tallest rocks at the rear of the tank.

JWarren · 05-27-2008, 07:45 PM

I agree with Jason as well and never said you needed a whole new box. You could add a breaker to that box and like Jason pointed out, you do have an uneven load on the 110 bars, which an electrician could fix for you.

If I had a sub panel put in, it would be to kill the mains and eliminate the need to pull the meter, an experienced electrician would have pointed this out to you as well.

I'm not really comfortable giving advice on how to work inside the breaker box, I'd just feel horrible if something were to go wrong. but that's just me.

Triggerjay · 05-27-2008, 10:42 PM

keep your fingers off places where they don't belong, and you'll do fine! Look at his tank man... anyone who can create a beast such as that, can stick in a breaker.. I wouldn't give him advice like that if I didn't feel he was capable. Great work Varga. I have been following your thread from the start, but didn't have much advice to offer until now.

The sub-panel to kill the mains is a great idea.. But wont pass code. It would have to be a 60 or 100a main disconnect, and it is before the panel,.... anything before the panel requires a permit, and then he will have to bring the whole house up to code... smoke detectors chained together, GFI's in the bathrooms/kitchen etc. That could get real costly in a hurry. I still say pop in a breaker, run your line, and call it done. (and move one of your other 110 breakers onto the other bus to help balance things)

Jason

Varga · 05-27-2008, 10:46 PM

I really appreciate the help Jason, I'm going to print that out. sounds like the sub panel would be easier for a novice right? those two wires go to a sub panel with one big breaker, ground connects the two panels, and a fat wire goes from sub to tank? [Plus this way I can stay well away from the hot wires cuz knowing me, I'm gonna touch em

How many Amps should it be?

the one circled in red is 60, under it is a double 30. bottom left is a 40 and it says "internal common trip"

Thanks again Jason, I owe you

05-27-2008, 09:43 AM	#468 (permalink)
Varga Golden Moray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,315 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! crap! maybe I'll just run a wire on the outside of the house and hack into an outlet in the bedroom from inside the wall and call it done. that would cost almost zero dollars __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-27-2008, 11:06 AM	#470 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,352 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Varga, Awesome advice from everyone one on the siphon break for the returns, good job. Glad the laeak was splashing. Hope you find a safe low dollar solution for your lighting. The tank and system is just amazing, can't wait to see the progress over the next year, very nicely done! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

05-27-2008, 04:02 PM	#471 (permalink)
Varga Golden Moray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,315 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Craig and JoJo. still no leak BUT now I'm thinking don't all tanks eventually leak? what if it leaks in 18 months, when I have it the way I want it and then I'm completely screwed. I had an AGA that leaked in less than a year. I'm looking at RC tank of the month and that thing is like 1" thick. Maybe there's a reason for that? I mean what do people do? have another tank up and running ready for the unexpected? I've done this whole project the cheap way so I can have the money for some nice sps corals. I'm not even gonna bother with softies or LPS so I think I need to seriously think about this long term. __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-27-2008, 05:46 PM	#472 (permalink)
Triggerjay Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Springfield MO Posts: 2,067 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I edited your pic of the panel. The red circle is the main breaker for all your 110v in your panel. It feeds the top buss bars. Currently, you have a very un-even load. You have one breaker on one leg, and 4 breakers on the other leg. As previously stated, all your bottom breakers are 220v. Those will feed your clothes dryer, AC, and your range and hot water heater if they are electric. What I have circled in blue, is the cut wires from the breaker right next to it. That breaker is not in use, and could be used to feed a new sub panel if you choose to go that route. Do you see the little pink box I drew at the top of the box? That could be the home of your new breaker if you choose not to go the sub-panel route. (It will also help balance the load on your 110v) I would reccomend installing a 20a breaker in this position, and run #12 wire from this point, to near your aquarium, and run your lighiting off of this circut. You have several mains in your panel, instead of one main breaker. everything on the bottom of you box (should be the top of your box had it been installed correctly) is considered a main breaker. Now, you have one slight problem with this configuration, that being the bus bars for your 220v are always hot. This is very similiar to my bulldog push-a-matic panel. If you shut off the breaker circled in red, it will kill all power to the top 110v busses. You will then be able to install your new breaker, and run your wire. On your new wire, the black wire will go to your new breaker. The white wire, as well as the copper grounding wire, will both go to the neutral bar located on the bottom left corner of the panel. On the top 110v buss, you actually have room for three more breakers. You have lots of room in that panel! It will work great for what you are doing, and you have two choices on how to do it. Be leary of the two large black wires entering the panel from the bottom. These are hot, as well as the buss they are connected to all the time. If you do not have a main disconnect switch outside the panel, between this box, and the meter, there is no way to kill it without pulling the meter,... and this requires a permit to break the seal on the meter. so, shut of the breaker circled in red, install your new breaker, and wire it up unless of course you decide to go the sub panel route. BTW, for what its worth... it appears to be a square D QO panel..You will need to know this for purchasing a new breaker. If you would rather go the other route, and install a sub panel, let me know, and I can explain how to do that as well. It would be real simple with your current setup. Jason Hope this helps. __________________ The start of my journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...xperience.html My current journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ld-thread.html My clownfish breeding log: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ne-fishes.html

05-27-2008, 05:49 PM	#473 (permalink)
Triggerjay Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Springfield MO Posts: 2,067 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! One more thing... what size are the two bottom breakers on the right side of the panel? the one circled in red, and the one under it... Thanks Jason __________________ The start of my journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...xperience.html My current journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ld-thread.html My clownfish breeding log: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ne-fishes.html

05-27-2008, 05:58 PM	#474 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,352 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely awesome help Jason! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

05-27-2008, 06:03 PM	#475 (permalink)
Triggerjay Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Springfield MO Posts: 2,067 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! lol, Its releated to what I do for a living... Jason __________________ The start of my journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...xperience.html My current journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ld-thread.html My clownfish breeding log: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ne-fishes.html

05-27-2008, 06:04 PM	#476 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,352 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I knew that Jason! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

05-27-2008, 07:24 PM	#477 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Golden Moray Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 2,812 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so glad that your leak was just splashed water. It would really suck if you got this far and your tank was leaking. Are you finished with the aquascape? An arch would look really awesome going from the two tallest rocks at the rear of the tank. __________________ No man ever reached excellence in any one art or profession without having passed through the slow and painful process of study and preparation. - Horace

05-27-2008, 07:45 PM	#478 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,425 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with Jason as well and never said you needed a whole new box. You could add a breaker to that box and like Jason pointed out, you do have an uneven load on the 110 bars, which an electrician could fix for you. If I had a sub panel put in, it would be to kill the mains and eliminate the need to pull the meter, an experienced electrician would have pointed this out to you as well. I'm not really comfortable giving advice on how to work inside the breaker box, I'd just feel horrible if something were to go wrong. but that's just me. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

05-27-2008, 10:42 PM	#479 (permalink)
Triggerjay Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Springfield MO Posts: 2,067 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! keep your fingers off places where they don't belong, and you'll do fine! Look at his tank man... anyone who can create a beast such as that, can stick in a breaker.. I wouldn't give him advice like that if I didn't feel he was capable. Great work Varga. I have been following your thread from the start, but didn't have much advice to offer until now. The sub-panel to kill the mains is a great idea.. But wont pass code. It would have to be a 60 or 100a main disconnect, and it is before the panel,.... anything before the panel requires a permit, and then he will have to bring the whole house up to code... smoke detectors chained together, GFI's in the bathrooms/kitchen etc. That could get real costly in a hurry. I still say pop in a breaker, run your line, and call it done. (and move one of your other 110 breakers onto the other bus to help balance things) Jason __________________ The start of my journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...xperience.html My current journey: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ld-thread.html My clownfish breeding log: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ne-fishes.html

05-27-2008, 10:46 PM	#480 (permalink)
Varga Golden Moray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,315 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I really appreciate the help Jason, I'm going to print that out. sounds like the sub panel would be easier for a novice right? those two wires go to a sub panel with one big breaker, ground connects the two panels, and a fat wire goes from sub to tank? [Plus this way I can stay well away from the hot wires cuz knowing me, I'm gonna touch em How many Amps should it be? the one circled in red is 60, under it is a double 30. bottom left is a 40 and it says "internal common trip" Thanks again Jason, I owe you __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

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