Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 25

Varga · 05-20-2008, 09:43 AM

Thanks guys, will move them today. how does this look.

Varga · 05-20-2008, 10:17 AM

OK guys, just called Iwaki America - The Best Chemical Handling Pumps and talked to Jason who said if you can prime it and keep it primed (check valve) you are ok to have them above the sump!

JoJo · 05-20-2008, 10:26 AM

ok, glad to hear it will work. sorry for the bad advice then, i never had experience with Iwaki

tbittner · 05-20-2008, 12:10 PM

That's what ReefFlo says too. It's not a problem to have the pumps mounted above the water and sucking the water in. You just have to ensure that they stay primed. Otherwise, as others pointed out, you'd probably end up damaging the impeller.

JWarren · 05-20-2008, 02:34 PM

Varga,

I am surprised that Jason at Iwaki failed to point out that flow will be reduced by having the pump higher than the liquid level and that the addition of a check valve would cause the pump to work harder and further reduce flow and that Iwaki's own installation manual recommends; "It is recommended that the pump shall be installed in a position lower than the liquid level of the suction tank by at least 12 inches (30 cm).".

Iwaki pump manual

I also noted that their instruction manual said the pump should not be mounted vertical; "The pump must not be mounted in a vertical position." and "Do not operate the pump with closed, or almost entirely closed, suction and/or discharge side valve(s). A closed suction valve will cause dry-run operation." and "Dry run operation (operation without liquid in the pump) damages the pump."

Pump cavitation will occur when the suction pressure builds, not talking about air induction here, this is totally different. Air will, through cavition, cause the pump to loose it's prime over time and time will be determined by amount of suction pressure present.

Here is a good read for you on pump cavitation.

I wonder if Jason is in the sales department of Iwaki or if all employee's of Iwaki are trained to sell as many pumps as they can in the shortest amount of time. Sounds like he would like to sell you a new one soon with the advise he neglected to give you. That's job security for ya.

Not trying to beat you up on this issue Varga, just trying to help you save your pumps!

Varga · 05-20-2008, 03:06 PM

You're right!!!! this is not good. do you think I can run them the way I have them for 1 month? I plan on getting a giant Reeflo to replace these 2 and install that one correctly. but thats a few paychecks away

2. Pump installation method
This pump is not self-priming. It is recommended that the pump shall be installed in a position lower than the liquid level of the suction tank by at least 12 inches (30 cm). If this distance is too short, air may enter the pump, causing damage.
3. Direction of pump discharge port
The discharge port can be directed as desired. However, for efficient elimination of air in the pump end, it is recommended that the discharge port be positioned in the horizontal direction.
4. Anchoring of base
The base of the pump must be anchored firmly. The pump must not be mounted in a vertical position.

JWarren · 05-20-2008, 03:30 PM

I can't give you a yes to that question, too many what if's, like, what if cavitation breaks prime and they loose prime while you are not home? Who will save your pump from being damaged by this? It could happen while you are sleeping and you would not know until you wake. What if, when they loose prime while you are asleep and the impeller locks up and the pump over heats and catch on fire? :0

Not worth taking a chance on IMO. Look at it this way, I just saved your life, your home and the red head!

Not saying it will happen, but you just never know. I have seen stranger things happen.

The chance is yours to take.

Varga · 05-20-2008, 04:01 PM

My cat will be home to unplug the pump man

re-doing the whole thing right now

JWarren · 05-20-2008, 05:48 PM

Ah, darn! I forgot you had a maintenance super.

You should see a noticable increase in flow, plus you won't have to worry about the what if's.

Craig Manoukian · 05-20-2008, 05:50 PM

When we had our 400 acre ranch we lifted water from 10' with a 75 HP three phase pump motor with impellers that are totally different from those used in this hobby. I agree with JoJo that lifting the water will greatly reduce the life of the pump.

Triggerjay · 05-20-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varga

Thanks guys, will move them today. how does this look.

ok, the first post on this page.... Plumb them like that. Thats the ticket!

Jason

Varga · 05-20-2008, 06:38 PM

I've been too busy with plumbing to tell you guys there's water in the tank!!!!! about 50% full. another couple days and we start to cycle the beast

both pumps are now 16" bellow sump water level as advised by John and the owner's manual.

JWarren · 05-20-2008, 07:02 PM

Good move!

Grab a pic when you get a chance.

vdituri · 05-20-2008, 09:16 PM

I call Party Foul!
30 lashes with that wet caluerpa they keep threatening everyone with.

You must super excited now?
Hit your fun quota yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varga

I've been too busy with plumbing to tell you guys there's water in the tank!!!!! about 50% full. another couple days and we start to cycle the beast

both pumps are now 16" bellow sump water level as advised by John and the owner's manual.

Craig Manoukian · 05-20-2008, 09:51 PM

Atta Boy Varga!

05-20-2008, 10:17 AM	#362 (permalink)
Varga Acropora Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,791 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! OK guys, just called Iwaki America - The Best Chemical Handling Pumps and talked to Jason who said if you can prime it and keep it primed (check valve) you are ok to have them above the sump! __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-20-2008, 12:10 PM	#364 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what ReefFlo says too. It's not a problem to have the pumps mounted above the water and sucking the water in. You just have to ensure that they stay primed. Otherwise, as others pointed out, you'd probably end up damaging the impeller. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

05-20-2008, 02:34 PM	#365 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,393 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Varga, I am surprised that Jason at Iwaki failed to point out that flow will be reduced by having the pump higher than the liquid level and that the addition of a check valve would cause the pump to work harder and further reduce flow and that Iwaki's own installation manual recommends; "It is recommended that the pump shall be installed in a position lower than the liquid level of the suction tank by at least 12 inches (30 cm).". Iwaki pump manual I also noted that their instruction manual said the pump should not be mounted vertical; "The pump must not be mounted in a vertical position." and "Do not operate the pump with closed, or almost entirely closed, suction and/or discharge side valve(s). A closed suction valve will cause dry-run operation." and "Dry run operation (operation without liquid in the pump) damages the pump." Pump cavitation will occur when the suction pressure builds, not talking about air induction here, this is totally different. Air will, through cavition, cause the pump to loose it's prime over time and time will be determined by amount of suction pressure present. Here is a good read for you on pump cavitation. I wonder if Jason is in the sales department of Iwaki or if all employee's of Iwaki are trained to sell as many pumps as they can in the shortest amount of time. Sounds like he would like to sell you a new one soon with the advise he neglected to give you. That's job security for ya. Not trying to beat you up on this issue Varga, just trying to help you save your pumps! __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

05-20-2008, 03:06 PM	#366 (permalink)
Varga Acropora Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,791 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! You're right!!!! this is not good. do you think I can run them the way I have them for 1 month? I plan on getting a giant Reeflo to replace these 2 and install that one correctly. but thats a few paychecks away 2. Pump installation method This pump is not self-priming. It is recommended that the pump shall be installed in a position lower than the liquid level of the suction tank by at least 12 inches (30 cm). If this distance is too short, air may enter the pump, causing damage. 3. Direction of pump discharge port The discharge port can be directed as desired. However, for efficient elimination of air in the pump end, it is recommended that the discharge port be positioned in the horizontal direction. 4. Anchoring of base The base of the pump must be anchored firmly. The pump must not be mounted in a vertical position. __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-20-2008, 03:30 PM	#367 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,393 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't give you a yes to that question, too many what if's, like, what if cavitation breaks prime and they loose prime while you are not home? Who will save your pump from being damaged by this? It could happen while you are sleeping and you would not know until you wake. What if, when they loose prime while you are asleep and the impeller locks up and the pump over heats and catch on fire? :0 Not worth taking a chance on IMO. Look at it this way, I just saved your life, your home and the red head! Not saying it will happen, but you just never know. I have seen stranger things happen. The chance is yours to take. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

05-20-2008, 04:01 PM	#368 (permalink)
Varga Acropora Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,791 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! My cat will be home to unplug the pump man re-doing the whole thing right now __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-20-2008, 05:48 PM	#369 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,393 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah, darn! I forgot you had a maintenance super. You should see a noticable increase in flow, plus you won't have to worry about the what if's. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

05-20-2008, 05:50 PM	#370 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 17,915 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! When we had our 400 acre ranch we lifted water from 10' with a 75 HP three phase pump motor with impellers that are totally different from those used in this hobby. I agree with JoJo that lifting the water will greatly reduce the life of the pump. __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

05-20-2008, 06:38 PM	#372 (permalink)
Varga Acropora Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,791 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been too busy with plumbing to tell you guys there's water in the tank!!!!! about 50% full. another couple days and we start to cycle the beast both pumps are now 16" bellow sump water level as advised by John and the owner's manual. __________________ Visit my 300g Build http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...all-build.html

05-20-2008, 07:02 PM	#373 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,393 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Good move! Grab a pic when you get a chance. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

05-20-2008, 09:51 PM	#375 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 17,915 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Varga's 300 Gallon In-Wall Build!!!!!!!!!!!! Atta Boy Varga! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

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