My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle - Page 9

boozeman · 01-23-2008, 04:16 PM

oh yeah...they have to be on top. then you figure the top 1-2'' of water volume in case of sump drainage

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 04:18 PM

OK.. Got it, and we're all sure that the holes for the locline connectors is 3/4"?

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 04:53 PM

As far as the overflow is concerned.... Is there a certain size I need to make it, or can I just make it as small as the drain / return pipes will allow?

Being that the drain is going to be 1 1/2", and the return is going to be 1", I know the overflow will have to be at least a 3x3. Can I get away with this or should it be bigger?

BigAl07 · 01-23-2008, 04:56 PM

Depends on your hands. I know my hands are BIG and my OF was a BIATCH to work in!!

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 04:57 PM

Oh, I'm a big dude... But if done correctly the first time... how much work would you actually be doing in there?

BigAl07 · 01-23-2008, 04:59 PM

Better safe than sorry

And Murphy says "Make it big enough now or you'll be in there ALL the time!"

framerguy · 01-23-2008, 05:19 PM

I've done a cross-section drawing of what a typical overflow looks like. Is this anything like what is in your mind? Can you make heads or tails of it?

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 05:47 PM

Thanks Greg.... YOU DA MAN! I was thinking exactly that except I want the returns to exit through the side of the overflow itself instead of resting on top for a more finished and hidden look.

There was another thing I was thinking about... The drain pipe. I wouldn't see why you would need a larger drain pipe than that of the return. You figure the tank will only drain as fast as the water can be returned because its ran like a syphon. With that being said, if I only need to turn my tank at a maximum of 5x, then a 1" for both the drain and return should be plenty sufficient, right?

framerguy · 01-23-2008, 07:28 PM

With the drain pipe you are relying on gravity to push the water through. Much less velocity is generated (not sure if that's the right term). With the return you have something forcing the water through the pipe (the pump) so it can be smaller which created more pressure resulting in more flow velocity... Terry, help me out here! I'm right but don't know how to say it.
The drain line could in fact handle more GPH if it is forced through the pipe, but since gravity is providing the force (and thus the GPH you were told) the pipe needs to be bigger to provide the GPH you need.

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 07:36 PM

I understand exactly what you are saying. Just to get my hands / eyes on some more ideas, I went past the LFS. I looked into the Oceanic 210, and it only has 1" for both the drain and return.... Thats what made me start thinking.... If I only did need a 1" then I could make the entire overflow a bit smaller, allowing me more room in the tank.

sasquatch · 01-23-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozeman

boozeman practical reef experience = 0

WHAT!

BigAl07 · 01-23-2008, 07:56 PM

Chris to be frank with you here you're splitting hairs and trying to modify something that we know works very well. Yes you "May" be able to get away with a 1" drain but that's cutting more of your "Error room" out of the equation. Slow drain = FLOOD.

SaltwaterGeek · 01-23-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl07

Chris to be frank with you here you're splitting hairs and trying to modify something that we know works very well. Yes you "May" be able to get away with a 1" drain but that's cutting more of your "Error room" out of the equation. Slow drain = FLOOD.

Thanks Allen, just wanting to double and triple checking with the overall concensus of the forum.... Like I said previously, I don't mind exasperating an issue until I know the pro/cons... and the whys....Thats how I learn.

Again, thanks for clearing that up... So we got 1 1/2" drain, 1" return, we know approx what size to build the overflow, and I know how and where I'm gonna put the locline returns......

Looks like all thats needed is a drawing to confirm our figures, and call the builder!!!

tbittner · 01-23-2008, 08:04 PM

A 1" drain will only provide around 600 gph. If that is satisfactory to you, then just put a 1" drain in. The return side has a pump attached to it and the pump can force a lot more water through a 1" pipe.

Gravity only pulls so much and that "so much" is 600 gph through a 1" pipe. Unless you can think of a way to increase gravity. hmmmm, maybe the eco-aqualizer would do just that???

(sorry, it's a joke, don't even bother googling for the eco-aqualizer, it's a smoke and mirror device that does nothing)

You're right though about the size of the box itself. In all truthfullness, you don't even need a box. A pipe sticking up with a screen over it would accomplish the same thing. As long as you don't have the bottom end stuck down into the water, that would work ok too. A box provides better surface skimming though. So more of the 600 gph comes from the surface water. The smaller the box, the less surface water that is sent to the sump/fuge/skimmer.

Which is the reason the coast to coast boxes are so attractive and effective.

BigAl07 · 01-23-2008, 08:05 PM

Chris I'm glad you took that comment well. It could have been "taken" many ways and ALL of them were bad except the way I meant it to sound. I didn't want to sound harsh but I wanted to be blunt and to the point so you got the "Jist" of my point.

I'm thrilled with your enthusiasm and can't wait to get this bad boy being built. It gets even MORE exciting as you get closer

01-23-2008, 04:16 PM	#121 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle oh yeah...they have to be on top. then you figure the top 1-2'' of water volume in case of sump drainage __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

01-23-2008, 04:18 PM	#122 (permalink)
SaltwaterGeek Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 401 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle OK.. Got it, and we're all sure that the holes for the locline connectors is 3/4"? __________________ Thanks for the help, My 150g Envision Acrylic Chronicle

01-23-2008, 04:53 PM	#123 (permalink)
SaltwaterGeek Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 401 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle As far as the overflow is concerned.... Is there a certain size I need to make it, or can I just make it as small as the drain / return pipes will allow? Being that the drain is going to be 1 1/2", and the return is going to be 1", I know the overflow will have to be at least a 3x3. Can I get away with this or should it be bigger? __________________ Thanks for the help, My 150g Envision Acrylic Chronicle

01-23-2008, 04:56 PM	#124 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Depends on your hands. I know my hands are BIG and my OF was a BIATCH to work in!! __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

01-23-2008, 04:57 PM	#125 (permalink)
SaltwaterGeek Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 401 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Oh, I'm a big dude... But if done correctly the first time... how much work would you actually be doing in there? __________________ Thanks for the help, My 150g Envision Acrylic Chronicle

01-23-2008, 04:59 PM	#126 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Better safe than sorry And Murphy says "Make it big enough now or you'll be in there ALL the time!" __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

01-23-2008, 05:19 PM	#127 (permalink)
framerguy Manta Ray Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mount Airy, Ga Posts: 3,326 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle I've done a cross-section drawing of what a typical overflow looks like. Is this anything like what is in your mind? Can you make heads or tails of it? __________________ ___________________________________ Greg All time fav quote: "Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and just be happy."-Guillaume Apollinaire "Being happy can be as easy as deciding to be!"-Greg Kimsey (framerguy) Still Workin' on it! 390gDT built in wall, Gargantuan DIY Beckett Skimmer, 150g sump, Sequence Hammerhead closed loop, 75 gallon seagrass/mineral mud refugium, 55 gallon crushed coral/live rock refugium, 30 gallon DSB/ cheatomorpha refugium, algae turf scrubber, DIY calcium reactor, DIY kalkwasser mixer, DIY light system w/4x 250MH & 4x54w T5, etc, etc, etc... chronicles-akwareum (\___/) This is Bunny. (=O.o=) Copy and paste him into your signature (")__(") to help him gain world domination

01-23-2008, 05:47 PM	#128 (permalink)
SaltwaterGeek Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 401 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Thanks Greg.... YOU DA MAN! I was thinking exactly that except I want the returns to exit through the side of the overflow itself instead of resting on top for a more finished and hidden look. There was another thing I was thinking about... The drain pipe. I wouldn't see why you would need a larger drain pipe than that of the return. You figure the tank will only drain as fast as the water can be returned because its ran like a syphon. With that being said, if I only need to turn my tank at a maximum of 5x, then a 1" for both the drain and return should be plenty sufficient, right? __________________ Thanks for the help, My 150g Envision Acrylic Chronicle

01-23-2008, 07:28 PM	#129 (permalink)
framerguy Manta Ray Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mount Airy, Ga Posts: 3,326 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle With the drain pipe you are relying on gravity to push the water through. Much less velocity is generated (not sure if that's the right term). With the return you have something forcing the water through the pipe (the pump) so it can be smaller which created more pressure resulting in more flow velocity... Terry, help me out here! I'm right but don't know how to say it. The drain line could in fact handle more GPH if it is forced through the pipe, but since gravity is providing the force (and thus the GPH you were told) the pipe needs to be bigger to provide the GPH you need. __________________ ___________________________________ Greg All time fav quote: "Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and just be happy."-Guillaume Apollinaire "Being happy can be as easy as deciding to be!"-Greg Kimsey (framerguy) Still Workin' on it! 390gDT built in wall, Gargantuan DIY Beckett Skimmer, 150g sump, Sequence Hammerhead closed loop, 75 gallon seagrass/mineral mud refugium, 55 gallon crushed coral/live rock refugium, 30 gallon DSB/ cheatomorpha refugium, algae turf scrubber, DIY calcium reactor, DIY kalkwasser mixer, DIY light system w/4x 250MH & 4x54w T5, etc, etc, etc... chronicles-akwareum (\___/) This is Bunny. (=O.o=) Copy and paste him into your signature (")__(") to help him gain world domination

01-23-2008, 07:36 PM	#130 (permalink)
SaltwaterGeek Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 401 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle I understand exactly what you are saying. Just to get my hands / eyes on some more ideas, I went past the LFS. I looked into the Oceanic 210, and it only has 1" for both the drain and return.... Thats what made me start thinking.... If I only did need a 1" then I could make the entire overflow a bit smaller, allowing me more room in the tank. __________________ Thanks for the help, My 150g Envision Acrylic Chronicle

01-23-2008, 07:56 PM	#132 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Chris to be frank with you here you're splitting hairs and trying to modify something that we know works very well. Yes you "May" be able to get away with a 1" drain but that's cutting more of your "Error room" out of the equation. Slow drain = FLOOD. __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

01-23-2008, 08:04 PM	#134 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle A 1" drain will only provide around 600 gph. If that is satisfactory to you, then just put a 1" drain in. The return side has a pump attached to it and the pump can force a lot more water through a 1" pipe. Gravity only pulls so much and that "so much" is 600 gph through a 1" pipe. Unless you can think of a way to increase gravity. hmmmm, maybe the eco-aqualizer would do just that??? (sorry, it's a joke, don't even bother googling for the eco-aqualizer, it's a smoke and mirror device that does nothing) You're right though about the size of the box itself. In all truthfullness, you don't even need a box. A pipe sticking up with a screen over it would accomplish the same thing. As long as you don't have the bottom end stuck down into the water, that would work ok too. A box provides better surface skimming though. So more of the 600 gph comes from the surface water. The smaller the box, the less surface water that is sent to the sump/fuge/skimmer. Which is the reason the coast to coast boxes are so attractive and effective. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

01-23-2008, 08:05 PM	#135 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,619 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My 120g Acrylic Tank Chronicle Chris I'm glad you took that comment well. It could have been "taken" many ways and ALL of them were bad except the way I meant it to sound. I didn't want to sound harsh but I wanted to be blunt and to the point so you got the "Jist" of my point. I'm thrilled with your enthusiasm and can't wait to get this bad boy being built. It gets even MORE exciting as you get closer __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

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