Ricks' Oceanic 14G Biocube - my first salt water tank

[Cassette87]

Originally Posted by Jason25

Just to add to what Lynn said about not using purple up. Do not dose anything in your tank that your are not or can not test for.

Looks like you're off to a nice start! Welcome to the sanctuary!

[djbacon]

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice, Im reading like mad and figure I have a good several weeks to keep learning. I did search for hydroids on google and could not turn up any images that looked like the guys in my rock but will keep looking.

also - took my first readings last night.

Temp 79-80
salinity 1.025
ph 8
NH3/4 0
NO3 12.5

(and no more purple up until we are testing for alk/calc) :-)

[djbacon]

POSITIVE ID on the firsts critter - Thanks Panmanmatt -

Digitate Hydroid,

and once I found the right name, there is a ton a unhappy people out there with these guys in their rocks. From what I gather they are absolutely no good for corals and difficult to get rid of. Many reports of corals detaching and dying and finding one of these right where the coral used to be.

Not sure if this is something that I should be upset about, having bought "cured" live rock. Removal methods are across the boards from vineagar injections to caulking holes in the LR. Will chat with the LFS tonight.

Some folks tanks have burst into reproduction into the hundreds of these things even after a complete tank crash.

Yikes

[lcstorc]

I wouldn't be upset about it coming in on the LR.
Good LR will have lots of stuff on/in it. Much of it good but some bad. There is no way for them to remove all of the bad and keep the good. Particularly since it is often a matter of opinion on what is good or bad.

[prow]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

I wouldn't be upset about it coming in on the LR.
Good LR will have lots of stuff on/in it. Much of it good but some bad. There is no way for them to remove all of the bad and keep the good. Particularly since it is often a matter of opinion on what is good or bad.

exactly, i could not agree more. thats the up and down side of any LR.

its very hard to get a positive ID, most little thingys like these are good, few are harmful and even then most of the harmful things are not so bad in low populations or dont grow to large. i would not worry about those unless you start to have issues


here is a good worm ID site Worm Hitch Hikers

[zy112]

Welcome to Rs look forward to seeing that tank get filled up

[djbacon]

OK, well, the LFS confirmed it, they were definitely hydroids and they definitely did sting. They were good enough to let me get a new batch from another cure tank. This time I mixed it up a little bit. Made a new foundation of the fiji live rock, and got a great piece of some other stuff with tunnels on both sides to allow for better flow and passages for the fish and clean up crew!! Im much happier with this aquascape. I did find another hydroid and quickly dispatched him.

I also found a couple feather duster worms which I am perfectly happy to leave in there on a smaller piece of rock.

My tank levels have been stable for 3 days. I have removed the bioballs because this is going to be primarily a coral tank. Everyone seems to agree that it is the right thing to do, and I bought the skimmer from oceaninc, which should arrive in a few days. I figure I'm basically starting from scratch with all the changes today, which brings me to another question for you fine folks.

The guys at the LFstore are telling me I need to add a biostart compound or a damsel fish or two to generate some poopoo to start this tank cycling. Will the decomposing shrimp Lynn suggested have the same effect as the fish poo?

The LFS is telling me since all the sand, cured live rock and saltwater came from the store environment, and has all acclimated to each other for months, they are telling me that if I do not do this the tank will never really cycle, I'll just keep pushing water around.

Some books I have read suggest sacrifing a small fish (which may actually survive the process). I'm was also under the impression that adding fish this early, even to kick start a cycle, may have bad results on the growing bacteria. (or is it already grown from being in the store for months). I had believed I was to add nothing for the first month to stabilize the tank and allow the rifght bacteria to grow. Is the starter fish an exception? Getting a lot of mixed info and now I'm confused.

Thanks again for all your help guys,
New aquascape pics below!!

[prow]

hey djbacon how are ya. you most definitely are starting fresh/over. i am glad you got the rock creature issue handled. i am not sure what tank setup your LFS has, guessing the curing system is seperate from the rest of the tank systems. so yeah you need something to add nutrients, namely nitrogen, provided via NH3(ammonia). NH3 can be added directly, as in pure everyday house hold ammonia, or any organic(containing carbon) matter that can be decomposed, this includes fish poo and pee. a deli shrimp serves the same purpose, as it decomposes it releases NH3. that is what i suggest, a deli shrimp. in your 14gal just one maybe enough.

i see you have visited this post Newbies, a little something on cycling/breaking in a new reef tank. the first two long posts i did should give you a good idea on whats going on. i go into adding fish to cycle a tank and some of the risks/problems that can cause. in a 100gal+ system a fish might be the way to go, but in a 14gal a fish will add too many nutrients(NH3 in this case), not to mention what the uneaten foods adds. the second long post(post#14) where i was answering some of BarbMazz questions, goes more into it, i think those questions BarbMazz asked really helps you "get it". if you have any questions on any part feel free to ask about it there, as others just starting out may have the same questions. or post a new thread and see what others have to say about it

couple things not covered in that thread tests kits;
test kits, i suggest you get a cheap kit, like tetra kits, to test for ammonia and nitrites (these are only checked during setups and/or if any issues pop up, and for QT's why cheap test kits). then i suggest better kits, like salifert test kits, for nitrates. for a reef after you get things going you will need calcium, alkalinity, ph(get a monitor when you can), kits at least.
for testing salinity i would get a refractometer, those swing arm things suck. for a fish only system they maybe good enough but for a reef, almost useless, IMO.

for chemistry i suggest you take a look here first Reef Chemistry for the Beginner. then post a new thread on chemistry and/or what sups to use. lots to choose from-simple weekly water changes may keep things right. dont go out and buy those reef paks with iodine/strontium/calcium or whatever combos they have. if nothing else remember this; research anything and everything before you add it. even calcium comes in many forms/compounds and each react differently. and always ALWAYS test for whatever you are adding before adding it. i think it needs to be said again, "research everything and test for anything before you add or do something"

[djbacon]

Prow, appreciate all advice, you are a rockstar. I have all the items you metioned, save the refractometer. My house is starting to feel like a bit of a chem lab. I love it!

Took some readings this morning before I left the house.

Low and behold, my amonia was between 3-4mg (not easy to tell with the cololr chart readings). DEFINITELY higher than 2 days ago when it registered flat. Perhaps the addition of the new live rock? I did not change the water out from the previous batch. Moved the sand around under the new rock to eliminate any dead spots. (this was fairly challlenging)

PH - 8
NH3/3 - 3.5
NO3 -12.5
salinity 1.022 (hydrometer reading - buy refractometer - got it!)
Temp - 79-80

The new rock came with some new friends. This morning I found 3 more feather duster worms, including two rather large (in comparison) red ones.

So anyway, given the fact that my amonia is increasing it seems like the addittion of a shrimp or damsel is uneccesary at this point.

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by djbacon

.... I have all the items you metioned, save the refractometer. My house is starting to feel like a bit of a chem lab. I love it!
...

Speaking of... check out this thread and get IN while the getting is good
Group Buys

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by djbacon

...So anyway, given the fact that my amonia is increasing it seems like the addittion of a shrimp or damsel is uneccesary at this point.

You still want to "Feed" the cycle along so it continues to grow. There probably is some slight die off from the new rock but if it was cured at all not enough to get the cycle to continue as it should. Damsel is NOT an option for the cycling. It will either kill or at the least shorten it's life significantly. The ammonia attacks the gills first and really hurts the fish from a medical stand point. Deli-shrimp in a mesh bag will feed the cycle and get the bio-filtration system kicked in gear. Without more of a long term food course you'll have a mini-cycle followed by a MAX-cycle when you add something living. Cycle now and get it behind you

[djbacon]

Yea, given that the amonia was up I had kinda ruled out the fish. Don't want to deliberately kill one. Was just wondering if the shrimp was still neccesary. Thanks for the reply!

[BigAl07]

You're welcome. Keep in mind there are usually several different ways to do just about anything you want to in this hobby.

But it does sound like you're off to a GREAT start here. Can't wait to see it progress and grow for you.

[djbacon]

OK - deli shrimp is IN and water stability is OUT!

NH3/4 at about 4
N03 is about 25

Guess this thing is a cyclin!! I did get a few more pieces of live rock to fill up the right side. Came with a little slug that looks like just like the garden variety but much smaller. I'll post new pics a bit later. Looking forward to February !!

[BigAl07]

Get all of your rock in there now while you're cycling in order to get it all done at once. More die-off will help the cycle and not CAUSE one later on.