Akwar'eum

[tbittner]

[JoJo]

thats a long trip

[framerguy]

Well, Glass cages didn't have the tank I wanted and it would cost around 2100 to get what I wanted and I can get a Tenecor for about 2200 with free shipping so ....Jacks Back!!

[JoJo]

sorry to hear that Greg, but atleast you have options

[framerguy]

It's actually a good thing JoJo. I am going to create a custom overflow and with it being acrylic I can drill holes much more easily so it has worked out the way the Universe intended!

[JoJo]

[nikkipigtails]

sounds like you're about to get everything up and running...how exciting. make sure to post pictures of the skimmer build. those are so interesting!

[tbittner]

Just curious, do you know what the lead time is for a Tenecor tank? I haven't ever heard a bad thing about them. I know the pics on their website are super impressive. They make beautiful systems.

Are you going to build the stand yourself?

[framerguy]

Well, the tanks are on order! I emailed Jack with the turnaround time question. I think I'm driving him nuts with e-mails. I ordered a bare bones (no overflow) 96x30x30 DT and three 48x15x18 refugiums. I will put the fuges end to end and connect them together. I will use a Reeflo Snapper 2500gph pump for sump return and divert some of that water to the far refugium with a pod friendly gravity fed weir overflow back to the DT from the third fuge. The order of fuges will be, 1:miracle mud seagrass bed with mangrove tree, 2: 3" very course sand bed algae flat with LR rubble and reverse flow undergravel filter (maybe), and 3: (I'm taking suggestions on this one) fine sand DSB LR bio farm?, more algae flat? IDK.

Terry, the stand will be in the tank room and unseen by guests except when I show it to them so it won't be pretty. Just two-by construction, and plywood surfaces.

Once Jack lets me know the total (I don't even know yet...scary!), I'll have to take Gail out and get her really drunk before I tell her how much it is . The way I see it I am three grand ahead building my own light system so maybe she won't have a heart attack.

I'll go over my plans for the closed loop later...

[JoJo]

Greg, thats going to be a sweet set up! i read a article on a guy who has 3 fuge set ups, from tallest to shortest spilling into each other then being pumped to the DT. i'll have to see if i can find it

[vdituri]

Greg,
I recommend Tequila shots when you tell her.
Or chloroform. According to Hollywood it's fast AND effective. lol

Sounds like a fantastic fuge setup.
What are the benefits of a reverse undergravel filter? Sounds interesting.

[framerguy]

Originally Posted by vdituri

Greg,
I recommend Tequila shots when you tell her.
Or chloroform. According to Hollywood it's fast AND effective. lol

Sounds like a fantastic fuge setup.
What are the benefits of a reverse undergravel filter? Sounds interesting.

OK, Tequila for me and Gin for her.

Paul B runs a reverse flow UGF. I think the benefits are less detritus buildup in the sand bed. I'll have to ask Paul about it. He stands by it and his tank speaks for itself.

[Paul B]

Framerguy, the benefits of a RUGF is that IMO it is the longest lasting, least maintenance systems available. As you know my reef has been running since 1972 with this system and I only cleaned the RUGF twice.
The advantages of it are that I can use gravel instead of sand which can accomidate many more pods between the grains as opposed to sand where larger fauna like pods are restricted to the surface. Also due to the flow of oxigenated water, the entire bed is full of bacteria with little chance of hydrogen sulfide occuring. The interfaces of the gravel, in time will build up detritus limiting oxygen in those small places and allowing anerobic bacteria to convert nitrate.
There is some maintenance but the system can last indefinately (or at least 40 years) with no replacement of parts or gravel. Due to the nature of the system with the water flowing through the gravel, you will get some detritus which as I said is not a bad thing. But if left alone for 6 months or a year you may get too much of it. Every three or four months I stir up the gravel where I can easily reach with the outflow of a diatom or canister filter and suck out the detritus. After about ten years I do a more thorough cleaning by moving some of the smaller rocks and stirring better. At 25 years I lifted the UG plates, mainly to see what was growing under there which was mainly tiny bright red tube worms. There was very little gravel clumping, no hydrogen sulfide and generally healthy looking gravel.
To run this system you need to push water through the gravel very slow. I run 50 GPH through each "lift" tube. You also need a filter of some kind on the intake before the water goed under the gravel. The better this filter is, the longer the system will last between maintenance. I have my three tubes plumbed together and I use one pump for all of them. I also use a sponge on the intake but I used to have filter with a settlement chamber connected that was a much better method. A sponge lets too much detritus through.
The slower you run the pump, the better.
If this is going to be in a refugium I would stir it more often as you don't have old corals growing all over the place.
UG filters are no longer used (except by me) because people try to use them like we did in fresh water by running as much water as we could through them from the surface down with no filtration. That system will not work longer than a few months to a year in salt water. I have tried it and it was a nightmare. When this hobby started, that was the only way to go as there were no filters or sand sold specifically for salt water. We all used UG filters and many people were forced to get out of the hobby until a better system became available. I personally do not like DSBs. It is only my opinion and my very first system in about 1971 was DSB. They have a lifespan and can't be maintained without tearing them apart. I know all about the "critters" people throw in there for this but those animals can only live in the oxygen rich surface areas of that type of substrait. I collect these "critters" all the time under rocks on muddy beaches and you only find them under rocks where there is circulation and oxygen. These places are full of crabs, worms, amphipods, mussels etc. to the extent that there are no places on that rock that is clear of animals. But when I lift a rock next to it where the rock is stuck too deeply in the mud, there is absolutely no life, just anerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide which you can immediately smell and see by the blackish purple mud. I know DSBs in aquariums are not the same as a muddy beach so there is no need to jump all over me. It is just my observation from over fifty years of looking under rocks Yes very wierd I know. Most people walk the beach either fishing crabbing or shell collecting, I am looking under rocks.
Anyway have a great day.
Paul

[tbittner]

Stop it Paul!!!

You're contradicting everything that I've learned over the last year.

When you say Gravel, I don't suppose you could post a link to something like what you're using. I'd like to see what it is. My impression of the benefits of sand is it naturally buffers the water and keeps the PH up. It also reflects the light to give the corals more exposure.

Another thing that I read about the sand sifting critters is they only stir the top 1" or so of the sand so a DSB in the DT can indeed turn into a bomb, waiting to kill everything in the tank. From my observation though, the sand sifting starfish DOES go deeper than that but I don't know how deep. Having a sand sifting starfish, to me, means that a 4" or 5" sand bed shouldn't be considered a DSB because I'm almost positive the SSS goes that deep. They also seem to cover a pretty good area in a day. I also think they will prevent the nasties from making their way down into the sand to form the bomb.

I could be wrong...

[framerguy]

Paul, thank you SO much for that info!! Terry, Chuck of Chucks Addiction recommends crushed coral sized 2-5mm for pod production and I seem to remember Paul using something like that. I am indeed going to set up the RFUGF in my algae/pod refugium, I just have to figure out how to slow the flow through it.

Yeah, a DSB in the DT would be a nightmare. A properly maintained one in the a refugium could be a boon though. I believe proper maintenance is to stir the bed periodically.

House stuff: We are meeting the appraisers at the new house at 9 this morning! Then we go look for a hottub...woohooo!!