Here We Go Again!

[kathywithbirds]

Do you mind if I chime in on this one with questions?

Doc, you said you used dead coral skeletons in a FOWLR tank... does coral skeleton eventually become seeded and live? And count as LR?

[Melanie]

Interesting! The dead coral skeletons aren't in the tank anymore because they were all white and would always turn green and ugly. I still have them, but they are in the box in the closet.

[kathywithbirds]

Yeah, I was reading everyone saying how important LR is and get the best... but I'd read that you can "seed" rock with existing LR and/or LS and it becomes "live." But I'm wondering if coral counts.

[lcstorc]

I have several in my reef as "live rock" They are not very porus so don't count as much as the good stuff but a couple of them are really pretty specially since they are now purple w/corraline. I certainly see no harm in them. They just usually don't have that much surface area to be really good LR.

[cheeks69]

I can't locate my red fromia starfish. I will keep looking today. I haven't seen it, but I think the emerald mythrax crab was picking at him. He had a little torn spot on the end of an arm one morning and about a week later he had a second arm with a torn area.

This is usually a sign of a bacterial infection which is quite common with starfish as they are very sensitive to any sudden changes in parameters. Also the Fromia sp. starfish need alot of mature LR to sustain them long term.

you said you used dead coral skeletons in a FOWLR tank... does coral skeleton eventually become seeded and live? And count as LR?

Yes eventually it'll become colonized with bacteria depending on how porous it is and eventually fauna will move in but the problem is it doesn't add any diversity to the tank as the LR would nor will it provide the surface area.

[lcstorc]

Remind me again what your salinity is. If I am remembering correctly it was pretty low and inverts do not do well with low salinity, If not already there try to slpwly raise it to 1.025 or 35ppt. It may be to late but the rest of your inverts will love you for it.

[DrHank]

I use some coral skeleton to help with the building process. It's on the bottom (for the most part) and it helps me elevate my rock work. It also makes a good spot to place other corals (which usually partially hide it). Lynn is right though, don't count it in as live rock. only the surface will colonize bacteria.

What I was really referring to was back before folks used live rock (pre FOWLR) we used coral skeletons in our fish tanks to add some color and structure to the tank. It would always algae us so you would have to re bleach and dechlorinate every few weeks or it would really look grungy.

That was a time when the wet/dry filter was the king of the fish tank. If you had a few good canisters set up as biological filters you were doing alright. If you had a wet dry you were in hog heaven. You did your weekly 25% water changes to reduce nitrates and you didn't usually keep corals.

You folks have to remember that I'm one of the older guys. I've been doing saltwater tanks since dolomite was the substrate, when a damsel died you shoved it under the gravel to decompose and push the ammonia cycle.

So much for nostalgia. Just follow current commonly accepted practices and you will be fine. When I first started, I was at the mercy of the knowledge of the LFS employee only. One thing that still holds true today is that some are knowledgeable and others not. Fortunately today there are forums like this one to help you out.

[Melanie]

Test Results 7/8/07: New test kit!

• NO2 0
• NO3 5.0
• Alk Didn't test
• Ph 8.4
• Salinity 1.020/1.021
• Amonia 0
• Temp 78 degrees

Ok, I went to the LFS today and picked up a new test kit. As you can see, everything tested MUCH better than when I was using that years old kit.

Lynn, yes my salinity is low but I have to raise it slowly because of my sea stars. They are very sensitive to changes in salinity and I can't just up it to 1.025. My goal is to raise it to 1.023 because that's the low end of what my inverts like and my fish are good with that too. I've been adding some of the salt mix to my top-off water. I don't get much evaporation so you don't see much change in my salinity yet.

I picked up some live rock at the LFS. It is the dead, dry kind and they sold me about 10 lbs. for $5. Not too shabby! I will have to cure it of course, but the shapes are very pretty for base-type rock.

I picked up the stuff I needed to start my QT. Even though it looks like my water is fine now, I want to get the QT set up for my future purchases. I'll keep you guys updated.

I have my semi-final tank plan. I have tried to research compatibility, tempermant, hardiness, desired tank conditions, ease of care, if they help keep the tank clean, and finally CUTENESS! If you see anything obviously wrong, please point it out. Also if you have suggestions on the order I introduce them or what things can be introduced at the same time, I'd greatly appreciate it!!

All livestock is one (1) each unless noted otherwise.
* = I own it.

Fish:
Firefish*
Ocellaris clownfish
Yellow Watchman Goby
Neon Blue Goby
Royal Gramma Basslet

Crabs:
Scarlet reef hermit crab (X5) *own one
Emerald Crab*ßseems kind of aggressive; I may trade him.
Dwarf yellow tip hermit crab (X10)
Dwarf red tip hermit crab (X10)

Snails:
margarita snails (X3) *own 2
XL Mexican Turbo Snail (X3) *own one
Nerite snail (X3)
Top crown snail (X3)
Zebra turbo snail (X3)
Chestnut Cowrie (snail) (X3)
Super Tongan Nassarius Snail (X3)
Bumble bee snail (X3)
Nassarius Snail (X3)
Banded Trochus Snail (X3)

Shrimp:
Pistol shrimp
Scarlet Skunk cleaner shrimp
Peppermint shrimp
Blood red fire shrimp

Other Inverts:
Sm. Tiger striped Serpent sea star*
XS Red Fromia starfish*
Longspine urchin, black
Hawaiian feather duster (1 or more)
Lettuce sea slug
tongan fighting conch (unsure because I only have 2” of sand)
Tigertail sea cucumber (up to 4) (unsure because of the toxin and no deep sand bed)
Burgundy sea star (unsure because I may one day get an anemone)
Blue Linkia sea star
Fancy serpent sea star, red
Fancy brittle sea star, yellow
Sand sifting sea star (unsure because I don’t have a deep sand bed)

Once I change my lights to T5: someday!
Plants such as shaving brush plant, Lettuce algae etc.
Bulb anemone
Some corals!

[Dentoid]

Originally Posted by Melanie

I picked up some live rock at the LFS. It is the dead, dry kind and they sold me about 10 lbs. for $5. Not too shabby! I will have to cure it of course, but the shapes are very pretty for base-type rock.

Melanie, not to confuse things, but this is not LR. LR is generally obtained from a tank of water. Most LFS will have a large tank or bin with LR submerged under water. It can already be cured and in some cases is uncured. The curing process is done to LR that comes directly out of the ocean. Due to the damp shipping practice, much of the infauna dies on the rock. The rock is allowed to cure in a tank of SW to allow the dead and dying organism to decay and/or wash away. Dead, dry rock does not need to cure unless it was once LR that was allowed to dessicate and never cleaned. Is it clean? Most base rock is clean. Remember, it's not LR unless it has living organism in and on it.

[DrHank]

The easiest way to bring your salinity up slowly is by adding satl water when you top off due to evaporation. Just mix some up to say 1.027 and replace your evaporation with that. Recheck after top off and a short period of time you'll be at your desired salinity. then switch back to straight DI water. Glad it was your test kit.

[Melanie]

Originally Posted by Dentoid

Melanie, not to confuse things, but this is not LR. LR is generally obtained from a tank of water. Most LFS will have a large tank or bin with LR submerged under water. It can already be cured and in some cases is uncured. The curing process is done to LR that comes directly out of the ocean. Due to the damp shipping practice, much of the infauna dies on the rock. The rock is allowed to cure in a tank of SW to allow the dead and dying organism to decay and/or wash away. Dead, dry rock does not need to cure unless it was once LR that was allowed to dessicate and never cleaned. Is it clean? Most base rock is clean. Remember, it's not LR unless it has living organism in and on it.

Won't it be "live" once I cure it? It is completely dry and little bits of dust come off of it. It was in a box, not a tank. It was labeled as "base rock". It looks just like my live rock in my tank except there is no coraline algae on it. What do you call this kind of rock? Dead rock?

[Dentoid]

No, this is not LR. It will take some time, in your tank, before it becomes LR. Base rock is dead with respect to the definition of LR, but it's not called dead rock, it's called base rock. Many people use base rock to bulk out the reef. Usually, it's used underneath LR, with the understanding that it will become LR in time as the organism from your LR multiply and colonize the base rock. It is not to be a substitute for LR.

LR that comes from the ocean and has been collected and shipped properly has had years to develope the infauna and life that can only come from the ocean. Both macroscopic and microscopic life is found in/on LR. This base rock, although pretty and will help build your aquascape, initially, will do little to nothing for your biofiltration.

I mentioned earlier about www.tampabaysaltwater.com. This LR is aquacultured off the coast of Florida and is collected and shipped underwater. It has very little die off as a result and is a unique shipping method. As a result, it costs more but with this LR, you'd be amazed at the life that comes out of it. In esssence its what you wanted to do-collect your own. Anyway, you may have opted against this because of finances, but I use it demonstrate what constitutes LR. IMO, this is the most "alive" you can get LR without collecting it yourself! I recommended it because your tank was already mature, it just needed a little more biofiltration in the form of LR. You can also get live sand from this company. Sand that was scooped right out of the Gulf of Mexico and shipped in water. It's teaming with life.

[BigAl07]

Scott correct Me if I am wrong but if it's dried and "powdery" then there isn't any life to die off so it should only need cleaning up and placing into the tank.

Allen

[Dentoid]

That's what I'm saying!

[Melanie]

I don't know why it is taking me so long to "get" things. Thanks for your patience Dentoid.

I do understand the live rock vs. base rock concept now.

Lynn said I don't need to get a "special" light if I buy great live rock, but I'm wondering if I got that tampabay liverock with all the crustaceans and clams and corals and anemones and plants if most of that stuff would die under my single bulb flourescent fixture.