Here We Go Again!

[lcstorc]

I've never heard of rock dying from amonia but I suppose it is possible. IMO your best bet is a very large water change. 50% or better. Followed by the same in a day or so. It is quite common to have an amonia spike with uncured live rock. The die-off is causing it. When you do the water change use the old water to submerse the rock in while you scrub it real good. Also be sure to blow off the rocks with a powerhead to get the additional junk moving around in the tank and hopefully you can vacuum it up during the water change. If you aren't running the skimmer I would.
Are you sure about the sea lice? I have never heard of them in home aquaria. Where could they have come from? I don't have any idea if they will hurt anyting or not. They may just become fish food the way pods do.

I'm kind of lost on the plumbint question. Sounds like your return pump is pumping more water than your overflow is allowing but I could be completely wrong on that. Ideally your sump will have enough extra room in it to contain the water in your overflow in case of a power outage.

The good news is that the tank is not full of livestock. These things are much easier to deal with at this stage than they would be later. I'll try to do a search on sea-lice and see what I come up with. I found a pic last time I looked but didn't look very hard.
HTH
Be patient and don't worry. Since it is just rock in the tank, you will be fine. Your fishies are nice and safe in the 10g.

[cheeks69]

Bad news - my "copepods" are sea lice.

Who made this ID ?

Worse news - My new pump isn't working like I planned. The water level is almost over the top of the tank and no matter how much I scoop out and put in the sump it keeps filling up. But I have to have a high level in the sump to cover the pump! What do I do???

Is this a reef ready predrilled tank ? If so how large are the bulkheads ? Which pump are you using and how many gph ?

Really really terrible news - the LFS tested my water and said he had never seen ammonia levels so high. He said the live rock would die if I didn't get it out of the tank. He sent me home with ammolock, 3 fluval ammonia remover bags, and 3 poly filters that pull ammonia from the water.

That happens and it just means that there was some dieoff from the rock so in about a month it should completely cycle, so wait on any fish additions until your ammonia is 0>

[DrHank]

Roberts questions are important to determine what is going wrong. We also need to know how many gallons does your sump hold. If your tank is not a reef ready, is it drilled with bulkheads in the back or are you usinf an overflow box.

[Melanie]

1. The sea lice were identified by LFS when I took one in a ziplock with water. They probably came from the live sand I collected. The LFS said that they would be fish food later but I have to be careful they don't attach to any fish.

2. I'm doing a 50 percent water change tomorrow and I will scrub the live rock again.

3. I turned on my protein skimmer.

4. The LFS owner said the same thing about the plumbing. He is going to put a thing on it to reduce the flow. I am using a Magnetic Drive 950 GPH pump. Just replaced the rio 2500. I also have a powersweep powerhead 250 GPH near the bottom of the tank opposite of the static nozzles.

5. My tank is not pre-drilled or reef-ready. This is a pic of the overflow and sump area. The bioballs and pre-filters are gone and there is a new pump and hose installed since these pics was taken. I think the sump will hold up to 20 gallons before overflow, but usually has between 5 and 10 gallons in it.





6. I don't smell anything rotten in the tank, but it does smell like mud a little.

Do you think I should put the bioballs back in? I took out two buckets (all) of bioballs and all the filters. (Lynn, I KNOW you said to take the balls out slowly. I should have listened. My tests were all good before I did that. I read on wetwebmedia that it was better to take them out all at once and replace with the liverock rubble.)

[lcstorc]

The bio-balls are "dead" now since they have been removed and dried so there is no benefit to be had by putting them back in. This sounds pretty much like normal live rock curing to me. You are just going to need to stay on top of the water changes and scrub them down every week or so until the parameters level out. The good thing is you won't need to worry about a cycle since you are going through that now.
Sometimes it takes weeks for LR to cure properly so don't be suprised if this goes on for a while. You may want to keep the lights off unless you already do. Most people cure LR without lights. Just flow, water changes, and time.

[DrHank]

I'm sorry to hear of the fish lice situation. I would have warned you had I known that you were going to use sand from the beach. I know it's tempting but there are so many pathogens present that it really isn't worth the risk. We tell our club members over here "everything from the Gulf, or nothing from the Gulf". At this point, my suggestion to you is to find out what the life cycle of a fish louse is and don't put any fish in the tank until after that period is over.

You aren't going to like my next suggestion one bit but I have to tell you. If it were my tank, I'd remove all of the rock from the tank into a 30 rubbermaid trash can half filler with newly made fresh water. I'd scrub the rock (in your tank) and then transfer it to the trash can. After all the rock is transferred, I'd get rid of the tank water and all the sand. I'd refill the tank with tap water, add a cup of bleach and run for 24 hours. I'd then drain the tank and refill it with tap water and dechlorinator at 4 times the recommended rate. Finally, I'd drain it and refill with DI water and your salt mix.

For sand, I would buy "Caribbsea" sand (probably from Drs. Foster & Smith) and start over.

If you decide not to do that, you risk infecting every fish you put into the tank. Sorry Melanie but shortcuts really aren't.

[cheeks69]

If the fish lice are parasitic then all we need to know is how long their life cycle is and keep it host free for that period of time. Since you mention that the ammonia levels are very high it's possible that the lice won't survive the cycle. Some of the reefers in Europe have had this issue and as your LFS mentioned they will be fish food and as long as their #'s remained controlled I don't see a problem but if you want to be completely safe then I'd follow DrHank's suggestion.

[cheeks69]

Your tank is predrilled now we need to know how big are the bulkheads. If the pump is too strong then the water will not drain quick enough and it will overflow. Here's what you can do if the pump is too strong:

To avoid too much flow to your tank, in case your pump is too powerful, you can put a "tee" in your return plumbing, and an elbow pointing straight back down into your sump. Then you put a ball valve on that. If the valve is wide open, the majority of your water will go straight back into your sump. The more you close the valve, the more water goes up to the tank. This is the best system, because your pump will never feel a restriction and it won't shorten the lifespan of your pump.

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

[DrHank]

You might also kill the fish lice by removing the rock, draining the tank, refill with fresh water and run. My guess is that would not survive a full day running in fresh water. A bit of bleach and nothing living will. Then you have to do a thorough clean out dechlorinate and reset with salt and DI water.

[DrHank]

Robert, it looks like the same setup that I have in my 65 Tall. Most likely a 1" drain and either a 1/2" or 3/4" return to the tank. The MAG 9.5 most likely has too much flow for the overflow to keep up with. I had one on my 110 with a 1 1/4" drain and it was only the larger drain and extra 2' of hear that kept me from overflowing. That was using a 3/4" return and 5' of head.

I'd recommend a T fitting and ball valve in the sump to reduce the return flow. I think that you'd have to restrict the pump too much at the return, creating a lot of backpressure on the pump (but that is an option as well).

[Melanie]

I wish I would have just left my tank alone. It's not any fun anymore and I hate it. Everything I do is wrong.

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by Melanie

1. The sea lice were identified by LFS when I took one in a ziplock with water. They probably came from the live sand I collected. The LFS said that they would be fish food later but I have to be careful they don't attach to any fish.

This is a VERY unusual thing to show up in your aquarium unless they come in on the fish themselves, which would be very obvious when you got the fish. Most species of sea lice are cold water and are found on salmonoids.
The only common sea lice species is relatively large and male/female is actually distinguishable by the naked eye. ~.5 cm in size
Even larval life forms are general found on the fish themselves, not in the water column in order to stay near the host (usually on the scales, just not actually attached to the flesh).
This is what the commonly found sea lice looks like:
http://www.uwphoto.no/500/esv127cd014.jpg

The type that affects humans is actually a juvenile thimble jelly (the problem with common names), and is unlikely to be something you would find in your warm water aquarium.

While I hate to give you conflicting info I highly doubt any free living "copepod" found in your tank is a sea lice, anything sizeable enough for you to see would be attached to the fish.
If it makes you feel any better about 4-6 weeks without and fish would prevent these parasites from surviving.

[lcstorc]

Originally Posted by Melanie

I wish I would have just left my tank alone. It's not any fun anymore and I hate it. Everything I do is wrong.

We've all been there. Everything you do is not wrong. You have made some really good decisions and are on your way to having a beautiful tank. Unfortunately, Particularly in the beginning people run into lots of issues since we are still learning.
Don't give up. Go look at mr Fire Fish and Herme for a while. They are doing fine in th 10g.
Give me a call if there is anything I can do to help. Trust me if there is a mistake to be made I have made it.

[DrHank]

Melanie take a break for a few days or even a week. Just let your tank run and don't worry about it. Mike may be very well right. Four to six weeks without a host and a parasite should die.

You are just getting started in the hobby and there is a lot to learn. I don't know if you noticed it but you already have four options on what to do. All of the options would probably work. The simplest is the one that Mike and Robert gave you. Just let your tank cycle and don't put anything in it for four to six weeks.

I'm sorry if my idea got you upset. That's only what I would do. That doesn't mean it's either the right answer or the only one. Guess what, in all the years that I've been maintaining tanks, there are still times that I get frustrated and it stops being fun.

One last thing. Just because the folks at the LFS told you you had sea lice doesn't mean you do. When I was starting out the LFS was my primary source of information. I lost a lot of fish because I listened to what they told me and did what they told me to do. As I grew to learn more and more I realized that although well meaning (most of them) their answers weren't always correct.

I may be (am) overly cautious most of the time. I evolved to that point as a result of years and years of misinformation before I could get on the computer and find out for myself. You will find that many of my solutions to problems require more work than others. Doesn't mean I right, just means that I tend to err on the side of overly cautious.

Take a few days off and just let your tank cycle. Forget about it and do something else. Things often look better after a break. Personally, I'd listen to Mike. From all of his posts that I've read I can tell you that he knows what he's talking about. Another person who seems to be almost always right is Woodstock (don't let that go to your hear Doni). You may want to get her opinion. One other person who I know is not always right is me. Consider your options then do what's right for you!

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by DrHank

Melanie take a break for a few days or even a week. Just let your tank run and don't worry about it. Mike may be very well right. Four to six weeks without a host and a parasite should die.

You are just getting started in the hobby and there is a lot to learn. I don't know if you noticed it but you already have four options on what to do. All of the options would probably work. The simplest is the one that Mike and Robert gave you. Just let your tank cycle and don't put anything in it for four to six weeks.

I'm sorry if my idea got you upset. That's only what I would do. That doesn't mean it's either the right answer or the only one. Guess what, in all the years that I've been maintaining tanks, there are still times that I get frustrated and it stops being fun.

One last thing. Just because the folks at the LFS told you you had sea lice doesn't mean you do. When I was starting out the LFS was my primary source of information. I lost a lot of fish because I listened to what they told me and did what they told me to do. As I grew to learn more and more I realized that although well meaning (most of them) their answers weren't always correct.

I may be (am) overly cautious most of the time. I evolved to that point as a result of years and years of misinformation before I could get on the computer and find out for myself. You will find that many of my solutions to problems require more work than others. Doesn't mean I right, just means that I tend to err on the side of overly cautious.

Take a few days off and just let your tank cycle. Forget about it and do something else. Things often look better after a break. Personally, I'd listen to Mike. From all of his posts that I've read I can tell you that he knows what he's talking about. Another person who seems to be almost always right is Woodstock (don't let that go to your hear Doni). You may want to get her opinion. One other person who I know is not always right is me. Consider your options then do what's right for you!

Dunno if you are talking about me, but I am off my rocker sometimes
Just to let ya know Melanie, I used to run a fish store, then worked for a popular filter manufacturer. I also have a BS in Biology and did an internship for the NC Public Aquariums. All of it means nothing though because experience is the best thing to learn from in this hobby.
If there is anything I have learned in this hobby it is take your time. Try not to get frustrated and rush things or go overboard on treating things. Usually it just gets you right back to the beginning.
I'm constantly learning new and different ways of keeping reef tanks successfully and it is one of the reasons I really enjoy this hobby.

Go look at mr Fire Fish and Herme for a while. They are doing fine in th 10g.

Excellent advice. Enjoy the things you can. The big tank will come into it's own. It takes time