Worst Nightmare has occurred

Warnberg · 08-23-2006, 12:24 PM

Well I woke to silence about 4 weeks ago, didn't hear the faint sound of water running or pumps pumping. I came out to find my 240 gal reef tank dead, nothing running, lights out, pumps off, and 8 inches of water missing.

From what I can tell at about 2 am both breakers tripped (GFCI) and the pumps stopped, well one of the check valves on the returns did not seal correctly so it siphoned about 8 inches of water off. When I opened the sump of course it had overflowed and drowned the external pumps, plus filled the bottom of the stand with about 6 inches of water (at about 7 it would have spilled onto the floor). Luckily I had 40 gallons of water on the porch ready for my water change. I pumped out the stand, put new water back into the tank and got the power heads running for circulation, I checked the water temp and about fainted 94, could that be right? Looked at my leather, it was gone, looked at my frog spawn, it too was gone. I figured at this point I have to get the chiller running again, so I jerry rigged something to cool the tank. It took almost a full 8 hours to get the temp back down to 78. So after all this I have lost 2 prize corals I had been growing for at least a year, I lost the frog spawn, the leather is gone, I lost all but one of my ricordia, I lost my jaw fish and my 6 line, I lost all my porcelain crabs and peppermint shrimp...... so now I am trying to muster the will to go on, at this point the tank is a total mess, I have had outbreak after outbreak of algae, bubble algae seemed to come out of nowhere and it trying it's best to take over...... someone please give me the words of encouragement to continue this quest....

Woodstock · 08-23-2006, 12:49 PM

I am very sorry for your loss Dave

Your tank was (and will be again) awesome.. don't give up! Chalk it up to experience and keep on swimming, keep on swimming...

I would like to know how your stand is built to hold 6" of water! THat is an awesome idea to keep from flooding the room!

I have heard similar stories of GFCI's tripping off the power for no apparent reason.

I have also been told never to use check valves since they can fail easily.

Maybe you could have some of the equipment (a return pump and chiller maybe) on non-GFCI outlets to prevent this from happening again?

Cougra · 08-23-2006, 12:53 PM

I'm so sorry to hear that you have had such a horrible tank crash and the loss of such prized corals. I can only feel for you at this point but hope that you stick with it. Eventually things will get back in order! Even though it's hard work now, the tank will come back to it's former glory. Keep at it Dave and we'll be here to cheer you on for as long as you need!

Warnberg · 08-23-2006, 12:59 PM

Wood, the whole tank and stand is made by tenecor. The stand is basically a tank made from acrylic with cutouts in the front and back for access, so the stand will hold about 6 to 7 inches of water in it before it spills out onto the floor. I have tried to come up with a way to keep from using check valves but with the way the tank is setup I am at a loss as to how to stop a siphon from occurring. What I have done is ordered a new sump, one that is larger and will hold much more water.

Stumped and stymied

Woodstock · 08-23-2006, 01:06 PM

A larger sump! Great idea.

You could also routinely replace the check valve to be sure it will operate properly.

Witfull · 08-23-2006, 01:26 PM

We Dave's are survivors! it may seem dark now, but from the ashes a Phoenix arises~

blue_eyes53813 · 08-23-2006, 01:42 PM

SO sorry you had this happen.... Make it an experience that you could warn us other reefers.. So it doesnt happen to others....

BoomerD · 08-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune. This is exactly why I always advocate NOT depending on check valves, but to ALWAYS include an anti-siphon hole at the water level. I realize some times, it's not easy to do, but there ARE optional ways to do this.

Woodstock · 08-23-2006, 02:53 PM

I wonder what tripped the ground fault Interruptors... and how did them temp rise to 94 deg?

Warnberg · 08-23-2006, 02:59 PM

Good question Wood and thanks for the support all. Only thing I can think of is either lightning (which we did have some that night) or each curcuit is on a seperate kids bedroom.... so maybe they where up doing something they shouldn't have been doing.... as far as the heat goes I have found that acrylic holds heat very very well.... so the increase in temp without circulation is no suppricse to me...

Boomer, if you look in my gallery you will see a pic of my tank. In that shot you will see the two returns, where would you suggest I put an anti-siphon hole? Please I need advise, I though about the top of the T in the return, however it would cause water to shoot straight up and if the hole gets plugged there goes that idea...... any suggestions....

Woodstock · 08-23-2006, 03:32 PM

Humm... Did you have a power outage? Maybe the power went out which caused the sump to overflow, which caused the return pump to short out and then trip the GFI?

The anti siphon hole(s) should be just below normal water level. The water will drain until those holes begin sucking air which will then break the siphon.

Cougra · 08-23-2006, 03:37 PM

Are those lockline returns? Is it possible to add a couple more links and have one outlet on each return to be closer to the surface? If you can move one return flow dirrector higher so that the one outlet will be no more then one inch below the surface on each side then you should be much safer.

Also, I recommend that people do a "power failure test" every month or so to make sure that everything starts up when it should and to ensure that should there be a power failure then the water that there is enough room in the sump in case there is any back syphon. I think there are a lot of people who fill their sumps way too full and don't leave any room for backflow in case something goes wrong. I have never used a check valve and never will because I know that they are noctorious for failure and it's safer to build your system, especially the sump to be able to hold the extra water from the display tank.

Warnberg · 08-23-2006, 03:57 PM

Good idea's all.... I will go back to teh drawing board here and make some changes. The sump will not be done for awhile and there are some changes being made when it is completed. I'll keep you all updated as to my progress.

Thanks

Vanquish · 08-23-2006, 04:54 PM

Hey Dave!

We all learn from our experiences and I hope you dun give up!!! This hobby is too wonderful to say goodbye to and we definitely do not want to lose a friend here!!

Come back with a even better tank!!!

cheeks69 · 08-23-2006, 05:07 PM

Very sorry to hear of your troubles Dave

I'm not sure I understand the need for a check valve, do you have a RR tank or an overflow box ? How big is your current sump ? Do you have your water level marked on the sump ?

Quote:

Is it possible to add a couple more links and have one outlet on each return to be closer to the surface?

That's exactly what I did.

08-23-2006, 12:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Warnberg Acropora Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,908 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Worst Nightmare has occurred Well I woke to silence about 4 weeks ago, didn't hear the faint sound of water running or pumps pumping. I came out to find my 240 gal reef tank dead, nothing running, lights out, pumps off, and 8 inches of water missing. From what I can tell at about 2 am both breakers tripped (GFCI) and the pumps stopped, well one of the check valves on the returns did not seal correctly so it siphoned about 8 inches of water off. When I opened the sump of course it had overflowed and drowned the external pumps, plus filled the bottom of the stand with about 6 inches of water (at about 7 it would have spilled onto the floor). Luckily I had 40 gallons of water on the porch ready for my water change. I pumped out the stand, put new water back into the tank and got the power heads running for circulation, I checked the water temp and about fainted 94, could that be right? Looked at my leather, it was gone, looked at my frog spawn, it too was gone. I figured at this point I have to get the chiller running again, so I jerry rigged something to cool the tank. It took almost a full 8 hours to get the temp back down to 78. So after all this I have lost 2 prize corals I had been growing for at least a year, I lost the frog spawn, the leather is gone, I lost all but one of my ricordia, I lost my jaw fish and my 6 line, I lost all my porcelain crabs and peppermint shrimp...... so now I am trying to muster the will to go on, at this point the tank is a total mess, I have had outbreak after outbreak of algae, bubble algae seemed to come out of nowhere and it trying it's best to take over...... someone please give me the words of encouragement to continue this quest.... __________________ Dave 240 Gallon Tall Tencor (96"L x 30"T x 18"W) 4 250 Watt MH XM10K bulbs 2-54 Watt T5 Actinic Euro-Reef CS8-2-RC Jetstream 1 Calcium Reactor 4 Tunze Turbelle stream 6000 power heads 7095 Tunze controller

08-23-2006, 12:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 21,650 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred I am very sorry for your loss Dave Your tank was (and will be again) awesome.. don't give up! Chalk it up to experience and keep on swimming, keep on swimming... I would like to know how your stand is built to hold 6" of water! THat is an awesome idea to keep from flooding the room! I have heard similar stories of GFCI's tripping off the power for no apparent reason. I have also been told never to use check valves since they can fail easily. Maybe you could have some of the equipment (a return pump and chiller maybe) on non-GFCI outlets to prevent this from happening again? __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~29 gal QT/Hospital tank~* *~3 gal Pico~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MH, dual Actinic t5s,AquaController III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

08-23-2006, 12:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cougra Dragon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 2,216 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred I'm so sorry to hear that you have had such a horrible tank crash and the loss of such prized corals. I can only feel for you at this point but hope that you stick with it. Eventually things will get back in order! Even though it's hard work now, the tank will come back to it's former glory. Keep at it Dave and we'll be here to cheer you on for as long as you need! __________________ Michelle Just because something CAN be done, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be done!

08-23-2006, 12:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Warnberg Acropora Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,908 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Wood, the whole tank and stand is made by tenecor. The stand is basically a tank made from acrylic with cutouts in the front and back for access, so the stand will hold about 6 to 7 inches of water in it before it spills out onto the floor. I have tried to come up with a way to keep from using check valves but with the way the tank is setup I am at a loss as to how to stop a siphon from occurring. What I have done is ordered a new sump, one that is larger and will hold much more water. Stumped and stymied __________________ Dave 240 Gallon Tall Tencor (96"L x 30"T x 18"W) 4 250 Watt MH XM10K bulbs 2-54 Watt T5 Actinic Euro-Reef CS8-2-RC Jetstream 1 Calcium Reactor 4 Tunze Turbelle stream 6000 power heads 7095 Tunze controller

08-23-2006, 01:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 21,650 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred A larger sump! Great idea. You could also routinely replace the check valve to be sure it will operate properly. __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~29 gal QT/Hospital tank~* *~3 gal Pico~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MH, dual Actinic t5s,AquaController III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

08-23-2006, 01:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
blue_eyes53813 fully trained mod,,,its my fault~ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lancaster, Wisconsin Posts: 5,851 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred SO sorry you had this happen.... Make it an experience that you could warn us other reefers.. So it doesnt happen to others.... __________________ 265 Gallon Reef built into basement wall. Lighting = 6x250 watts MH, 2x96 watt PC ,and 2x140 watt VHO for a total watt of 1,972 watts . New addition on 4-14-07 of 100 gallon sump and 100 gallon refugium. I think I have lost my mind. Gotta love this hobby Vicki Life is like a pathway of untrodden snow. Be careful how you step in it for every mark will show Definition of FRIENDSHIP: All lives touch other lives to create something new and alive My tank chronicles. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...wall-reef.html

08-23-2006, 02:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,222 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Very sorry to hear of your misfortune. This is exactly why I always advocate NOT depending on check valves, but to ALWAYS include an anti-siphon hole at the water level. I realize some times, it's not easy to do, but there ARE optional ways to do this. __________________ Intelligence is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where and how to find them! www.google.com

08-23-2006, 02:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 21,650 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred I wonder what tripped the ground fault Interruptors... and how did them temp rise to 94 deg? __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~29 gal QT/Hospital tank~* *~3 gal Pico~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MH, dual Actinic t5s,AquaController III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

08-23-2006, 02:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Warnberg Acropora Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,908 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Good question Wood and thanks for the support all. Only thing I can think of is either lightning (which we did have some that night) or each curcuit is on a seperate kids bedroom.... so maybe they where up doing something they shouldn't have been doing.... as far as the heat goes I have found that acrylic holds heat very very well.... so the increase in temp without circulation is no suppricse to me... Boomer, if you look in my gallery you will see a pic of my tank. In that shot you will see the two returns, where would you suggest I put an anti-siphon hole? Please I need advise, I though about the top of the T in the return, however it would cause water to shoot straight up and if the hole gets plugged there goes that idea...... any suggestions.... __________________ Dave 240 Gallon Tall Tencor (96"L x 30"T x 18"W) 4 250 Watt MH XM10K bulbs 2-54 Watt T5 Actinic Euro-Reef CS8-2-RC Jetstream 1 Calcium Reactor 4 Tunze Turbelle stream 6000 power heads 7095 Tunze controller

08-23-2006, 03:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 21,650 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Humm... Did you have a power outage? Maybe the power went out which caused the sump to overflow, which caused the return pump to short out and then trip the GFI? The anti siphon hole(s) should be just below normal water level. The water will drain until those holes begin sucking air which will then break the siphon. __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~29 gal QT/Hospital tank~* *~3 gal Pico~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MH, dual Actinic t5s,AquaController III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

08-23-2006, 03:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
Cougra Dragon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 2,216 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Are those lockline returns? Is it possible to add a couple more links and have one outlet on each return to be closer to the surface? If you can move one return flow dirrector higher so that the one outlet will be no more then one inch below the surface on each side then you should be much safer. Also, I recommend that people do a "power failure test" every month or so to make sure that everything starts up when it should and to ensure that should there be a power failure then the water that there is enough room in the sump in case there is any back syphon. I think there are a lot of people who fill their sumps way too full and don't leave any room for backflow in case something goes wrong. I have never used a check valve and never will because I know that they are noctorious for failure and it's safer to build your system, especially the sump to be able to hold the extra water from the display tank. __________________ Michelle Just because something CAN be done, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be done!

08-23-2006, 03:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Warnberg Acropora Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,908 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Good idea's all.... I will go back to teh drawing board here and make some changes. The sump will not be done for awhile and there are some changes being made when it is completed. I'll keep you all updated as to my progress. Thanks __________________ Dave 240 Gallon Tall Tencor (96"L x 30"T x 18"W) 4 250 Watt MH XM10K bulbs 2-54 Watt T5 Actinic Euro-Reef CS8-2-RC Jetstream 1 Calcium Reactor 4 Tunze Turbelle stream 6000 power heads 7095 Tunze controller

08-23-2006, 04:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
Vanquish Neon dottyback Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 645 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Worst Nightmare has occurred Hey Dave! We all learn from our experiences and I hope you dun give up!!! This hobby is too wonderful to say goodbye to and we definitely do not want to lose a friend here!! Come back with a even better tank!!! __________________ *Member "Crabs Are Evil" Society* My love affair with reef-gardening...

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