I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) - Page 2

nikkipigtails · 05-02-2008, 02:44 PM

the sticker on the top of my box says 06-2012 I don't know if that's the batch number or exp. date of the test

prow · 05-02-2008, 02:50 PM

that would be the self date. check on the bottles, the batch number should be there.

nikkipigtails · 05-02-2008, 02:51 PM

0507-d for the KH
0607-E for the KH ind

BarbMazz · 05-02-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkipigtails

0507-d for the KH
0607-E for the KH ind

Mine are the same. My expiration date is 12-2012, although I'm sure that doesn't mean anything.

nikkipigtails · 05-02-2008, 03:34 PM

I wonder if we just got a bad batch?

Like I said before, I tested with an Instant Ocean test and got 2.75mEq/L and 7.7dKh.

The two results are at opposite ends of the spectrum but I don't know if that's significant or not.

BarbMazz · 05-02-2008, 03:49 PM

I've ordered an Elos brand test from Phishy Business which should be here Monday. I wish I had a decent LFS so I could go pick one up!

I do suspect this test mostly because my Ca tests at 430 and pH is at 8.3. Wouldn't it be kind of weird to have alk at 14.77dKh with the other readings where they are?

nikkipigtails · 05-02-2008, 04:19 PM

yup...This means that my problem will be much easier to fix.

BarbMazz · 05-02-2008, 05:18 PM

I'm really glad I followed along! I've been chewing over my alk readings for several days now and thinking I should post about what to do about it. Thinking it just didn't make sense!

Glad this helps you some!

p.s. how's that cute baby?

Boomer · 05-03-2008, 12:25 AM

Nikki

I figured there were errors in those tests. First, there were a number of bad batches of Salifert Alk kits and all of them read way to high. It has been so bad that many will not use a Salifert Alk kit anymore. The IO Alk is correct and now that we see the pH is 7.8 that makes sense. IO has low Ca++ to begin with if it is not boosted, ~ 350 ppm or so and you were at 275 ppm. IO also has high Alk usually 11 dKH and if you work it out mathamtically you will get the ~Ca++ and ~ Alk you have more or less and this would fit in with your pH.

nikkipigtails · 05-03-2008, 06:42 AM

Thanks, Boomer!

I'm glad you tagged too Barb...we both found out something that could have been very detrimental to us later.

BarbMazz · 05-03-2008, 08:38 AM

Yeah, really, Nikki!

Thanks a bunch, Boomer. I knew something didn't seem right with my results. This helps me see the inter-relation between the chemistries involved better. I now know to suspect a test if one number is way out of whack when everything else is pretty much in line, and also how the ratios tend to align themselves. This is a good lesson for me!

Origami2547 · 05-03-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer

Nikki

I figured there were errors in those tests. First, there were a number of bad batches of Salifert Alk kits and all of them read way to high. It has been so bad that many will not use a Salifert Alk kit anymore. The IO Alk is correct and now that we see the pH is 7.8 that makes sense. IO has low Ca++ to begin with if it is not boosted, ~ 350 ppm or so and you were at 275 ppm. IO also has high Alk usually 11 dKH and if you work it out mathamtically you will get the ~Ca++ and ~ Alk you have more or less and this would fit in with your pH.

Yep, I was burned by the bad test kits, too. Quite a disappointment considering the high cost. I've actually switched to API for my Ca and Alk tests and have, so far, been happy.

It seems that your readings are most likely the result of a bad kit. If your alk really were that high, I'd use water changes to pull it back down before trying to boost the calcium to bring things back into line. That's Randy Holmes Farley's advice anyway from this thread for cases where Alk or Ca are way out of whack: http://www.advancedaquarst.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

prow · 05-03-2008, 10:41 AM

nice mystery solved

if you send a email i am sure salifert will send you out replacements for a bad batch.
on your new results, with your ph, it still sounds like you might have a CO2 issue. perhaps a good size WC to bring things into balance (get your Ca+ up and balanced with your alk) also Mg+ if you can. then see if your ph doesnt come up some. if not try to bring in some outside air, via open window and/or airstone. also increased water flow that creates some good surface agitation and air flow accross the water surface aswell.

REEF ON!!!!!!

Origami2547 · 05-09-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origami2547

Yep, I was burned by the bad test kits, too. Quite a disappointment considering the high cost. I've actually switched to API for my Ca and Alk tests and have, so far, been happy.

It seems that your readings are most likely the result of a bad kit. If your alk really were that high, I'd use water changes to pull it back down before trying to boost the calcium to bring things back into line. That's Randy Holmes Farley's advice anyway from this thread for cases where Alk or Ca are way out of whack: http://www.advancedaquarst.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Sorry, my link had a typo. It should be:
Chemistry and the Aquarium

nikkipigtails · 05-10-2008, 12:50 PM

Just an update...
I finished adding the anhydrous calcium chloride and pointed a powerhead up so the surface of the water is agitated. We just got a new light so we went from 96 W of PC to 250 W MH. The light acclimation is going nicely and we're supplimenting with the PC for the atenic. With the MH the water looks very yellow so we're also running a HOB skimmer and in a day I can already see a difference. I'm also continuing to dose Kent's CB parts A&B to make sure that the parameters stay where they are.

New water parameters:
Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia & phosphates: 0
Alk: 3.5 mEq/L
Calcium: 425 ppm
pH: 8.2
Mag: still haven't had the chance to get a new test kit

05-02-2008, 02:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) the sticker on the top of my box says 06-2012 I don't know if that's the batch number or exp. date of the test __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

05-02-2008, 02:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
prow Manta Ray Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 3,854 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) that would be the self date. check on the bottles, the batch number should be there. __________________ "He who sees things grow from their beginnings shall have the finest view of them" ........Aristotle........ "The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali my chronicle........ http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...al-system.html

05-02-2008, 02:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) 0507-d for the KH 0607-E for the KH ind __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

05-02-2008, 03:34 PM	#20 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) I wonder if we just got a bad batch? Like I said before, I tested with an Instant Ocean test and got 2.75mEq/L and 7.7dKh. The two results are at opposite ends of the spectrum but I don't know if that's significant or not. __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

05-02-2008, 03:49 PM	#21 (permalink)
BarbMazz Madame Klanganator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 3,175 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) I've ordered an Elos brand test from Phishy Business which should be here Monday. I wish I had a decent LFS so I could go pick one up! I do suspect this test mostly because my Ca tests at 430 and pH is at 8.3. Wouldn't it be kind of weird to have alk at 14.77dKh with the other readings where they are? __________________ A Snail's Pace Beginning: an old lady's first reef http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...tml#post366161 ~not knowing how near the truth is we seek it far away~

05-02-2008, 04:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) yup...This means that my problem will be much easier to fix. __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

05-02-2008, 05:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
BarbMazz Madame Klanganator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 3,175 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) I'm really glad I followed along! I've been chewing over my alk readings for several days now and thinking I should post about what to do about it. Thinking it just didn't make sense! Glad this helps you some! p.s. how's that cute baby? __________________ A Snail's Pace Beginning: an old lady's first reef http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...tml#post366161 ~not knowing how near the truth is we seek it far away~

05-03-2008, 12:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,069 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) Nikki I figured there were errors in those tests. First, there were a number of bad batches of Salifert Alk kits and all of them read way to high. It has been so bad that many will not use a Salifert Alk kit anymore. The IO Alk is correct and now that we see the pH is 7.8 that makes sense. IO has low Ca++ to begin with if it is not boosted, ~ 350 ppm or so and you were at 275 ppm. IO also has high Alk usually 11 dKH and if you work it out mathamtically you will get the ~Ca++ and ~ Alk you have more or less and this would fit in with your pH. __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

05-03-2008, 06:42 AM	#25 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) Thanks, Boomer! I'm glad you tagged too Barb...we both found out something that could have been very detrimental to us later. __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

05-03-2008, 08:38 AM	#26 (permalink)
BarbMazz Madame Klanganator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 3,175 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) Yeah, really, Nikki! Thanks a bunch, Boomer. I knew something didn't seem right with my results. This helps me see the inter-relation between the chemistries involved better. I now know to suspect a test if one number is way out of whack when everything else is pretty much in line, and also how the ratios tend to align themselves. This is a good lesson for me! __________________ A Snail's Pace Beginning: an old lady's first reef http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...tml#post366161 ~not knowing how near the truth is we seek it far away~

05-03-2008, 10:41 AM	#28 (permalink)
prow Manta Ray Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 3,854 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) nice mystery solved if you send a email i am sure salifert will send you out replacements for a bad batch. on your new results, with your ph, it still sounds like you might have a CO2 issue. perhaps a good size WC to bring things into balance (get your Ca+ up and balanced with your alk) also Mg+ if you can. then see if your ph doesnt come up some. if not try to bring in some outside air, via open window and/or airstone. also increased water flow that creates some good surface agitation and air flow accross the water surface aswell. REEF ON!!!!!! __________________ "He who sees things grow from their beginnings shall have the finest view of them" ........Aristotle........ "The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali my chronicle........ http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...al-system.html

05-10-2008, 12:50 PM	#30 (permalink)
nikkipigtails Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL Posts: 1,924 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: I've been bad :( (fixing low pH/calc & high alk) Just an update... I finished adding the anhydrous calcium chloride and pointed a powerhead up so the surface of the water is agitated. We just got a new light so we went from 96 W of PC to 250 W MH. The light acclimation is going nicely and we're supplimenting with the PC for the atenic. With the MH the water looks very yellow so we're also running a HOB skimmer and in a day I can already see a difference. I'm also continuing to dose Kent's CB parts A&B to make sure that the parameters stay where they are. New water parameters: Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia & phosphates: 0 Alk: 3.5 mEq/L Calcium: 425 ppm pH: 8.2 Mag: still haven't had the chance to get a new test kit __________________ Our 180 Gallon Family Project

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