My Never-ending Calcium Problem

[Melanie]

Note: I also posted this in my chronicle....

Good evening fellow reefers! I'm going to start by mentioning that I'm very frustrated by the Calcium snow storm in my tank. I had really hoped it would resolve itself by now, but it hasn't. It's ugly and I'm embarrassed. Tonight my husband said "What's all the white stuff?"

I did my weekly water change and tank cleaning. Today I also rinsed my carbon in my carbon reactor because it is about a month old.

Here are my test results today at 6:30 PM:

Temp 80 (water change water was a little warmer than the tank)
Sg 1.025
Mg 1300
Ph 8.4
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Phos 0
dKH 9
Ammon 0
Ca 440

• I use Instant Ocean salt after changing over from Tropic Marin Pro Reef.
• I do a 5 - 10 gal. weekly water change and thorough tank and sump cleaning.
• I have a refugium with a DSB.
• My tank is 72 gal with about 80 gal total water volume.
• I do not supplement with anything.
• I use a carbon reactor, UV sterilizer, Octopus protein skimmer.
• I use a Hydor Korallia 3 power head and I have an overflow and sump.
• My reef is 2.5 months old.
• I have mushrooms, ricordias, torch coral, a couple of brains, two leathers, 2 montipora frags, two xenias, yellow colony polyps, and some zoanthids.
• I have a small CUC that includes a variety of snails, shrimp, and crabs.
• I run T5 lights with 54 wt. X 4 bulbs (1 actinic and 3 daylight) on a 12 hour on/off cycle.
• I also have a healthy, growing supply of coralline algae in a multitude of colors.
• I have 3 fish (a royal gramma, a clown, and a firefish)
• I have about 95 lbs. of LR and about 60 lbs. LS.
  
• I use RO water for everything.

Can anyone help me???? I'm getting desperate and this is not a good state to be in with a reef.

[Woodstock]

Very nice list of info!

Have you tested the newly made salt water prior to use?
What fresh water source are you using? Tap? ro/di? well water?
Have you tested it for alk and calcium?
When you mix a batch of newly made saltwater and before you use it, do you see any precipitation or does it only occur after you pour the new water into your reef?

[Melanie]

Originally Posted by Woodstock

Very nice list of info!

Have you tested the newly made salt water prior to use?
What fresh water source are you using? Tap? ro/di? well water?
Have you tested it for alk and calcium?
When you mix a batch of newly made saltwater and before you use it, do you see any precipitation or does it only occur after you pour the new water into your reef?

I tried to think of everything.

I have only tested newly made salt water for salinty and temp.
I use only RO water (it is well water then RO)
I have not tested my fresh water for anything.
I see the precipitation 24/7.

What kinds of things do you suggest I test the RO (fresh) water for and what things should I test the new mixed saltwater for? Can I use my reef test kit or do I need to buy a freshwater kit?

[Dentoid]

Melanie, those numbers don't look so bad. They are all within the normal range. Are you sure it's not just debris in suspension? Are you using anykind of filter sock?

[Woodstock]

If that is happening 24/7 and you are NOT adding any supplements, what you are seeing is not a calcium precipitation event. Are your positive you're not using anything... purple up, anything?

Only test your ro/di for po4 and TDS.
I was thinking you could be using a water source with high alk and calcium so I suggested you test it. You're using ro/di so never mind
I recommend testing your newly made salt water prior to use for; ph, salinity, temp, alk, calcium and mg. That way you know what you are putting into your reef.

[Melanie]

Dentoid, I just added a filter sock a week ago and it's made no difference. I do believe it's Ca because it is snow white and it started when my Ca was in the mid 500s.

I'm not using, nor have I ever used Purple Up or Kalkawasser or any Ca supplements whatsoever.

[prow]

i am with scott on this one. especially with your Mg+ at that level, its probably debris.

i think what you are seeing is just sand and stuff getting into the flow. from the random currents and/or nitro bubbles picking things up on there way out. try to turn off most of your PH or whatever flow, decrease the flow to almost nothing. let it settle for a few hours and see if things clear up. if so then turn everything back on run a canister filter and/or add a filter sock for a couple days. at least you can rule out debris floating around.

[Frankie]

Melanie, can you get a picture of it? That would help a lot in IDing the problem. It could also be build up in your plumbing coming loose. when ever i turn my closed loop off and then on i see something similar to what you are describing.

[prow]

i almost forgot. has your Mg levels been steady? notice any swings?

o yeah ffrankie, i think you might have hit it right on the head. that could be it right there.

[DrHank]

Melanie, I don't think it's Calcium either. Your concentration is exactly the same as mine at 440 and I'm having no problems at all. Let me ask again, are you using RO water or DI water? There is a difference and I know you've said RO. I highly suggest that if you are using RO water, that you add a DI cartridge to your output for the tank.

[Melanie]

Here are my test results since I started measuring them.

Ca
8/12 500
8/19 540
8/26 540
9/2 520
9/8 500
9/16 520
9/23 480
9/29 460
10/6 440

Mg
9/16 1300
9/23 1290
9/29 1300
10/6 1300

dKH
8/12 12
8/19 10
8/26 10
9/2 11
9/8 10
9/16 11
9/23 10
9/29 9
10/6 9

[CATALYST]

Was the water test after the water change? What was is before? Was there white both before and after? Did the water change help or make it worse? How long did your new water sit before changing it?

[Woodstock]

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Although yours is not a limewater overdose; the following tips are still helpful for your possible precipitation event:

The following important points should help in dealing with a limewater overdose:

1. Don't panic! These overdoses do not usually cause a tank to crash.
2. The primary concern is pH. If the pH is 8.6 or lower, you need not do anything. If the pH is above 8.6, then reducing the pH is the priority. Direct addition of vinegar or soda water is a good way to accomplish this goal. Either one mL of distilled white vinegar, or six mL of soda water, per gallon of tank water will give an initial pH drop of about 0.3 pH units. Add either to a high flow area that is away from organisms (e.g., a sump).
3. Do not bother to measure calcium or alkalinity while the tank is cloudy. The solid calcium carbonate particles will dissolve in an alkalinity test, and all of the carbonate in them will be counted as if it were in solution and part of "alkalinity." The same may happen to some extent with calcium tests. Wait until the water clears, and at that point, alkalinity is more likely to be low than high. Calcium will likely be mostly unchanged.
4. The particles themselves will typically settle out and disappear from view over a period of 1-4 days. They do not appear to cause long term detrimental effects to tank organisms.
5. Water changes are not necessarily beneficial or needed in response to a limewater overdose.

We need Boomer!

[Melanie]

Originally Posted by CATALYST

Was the water test after the water change? What was is before? Was there white both before and after? Did the water change help or make it worse? How long did your new water sit before changing it?

I consistently do the water tests 1 hr. after a water change. (Not before the change or during the week.)

The white is 24/7.

The water change appears to make it worse but only because it settles on everything and makes a kind of thin sheet of white that easily blows off with a baster and when I do the water change it mixes up into the water column even more.

The new water sits with a powerhead for one week before I use it.

Melanie, I don't think it's Calcium either. Your concentration is exactly the same as mine at 440 and I'm having no problems at all. Let me ask again, are you using RO water or DI water? There is a difference and I know you've said RO. I highly suggest that if you are using RO water, that you add a DI cartridge to your output for the tank.

I am using RO water. I have a whole-house RO system. I've considered installing a DI filter under the sink but I don't usually use the sink for filling the 30 gallon container I have. I usually use a spigot and hose.

Melanie, can you get a picture of it? That would help a lot in IDing the problem. It could also be build up in your plumbing coming loose. when ever i turn my closed loop off and then on i see something similar to what you are describing.

I don't know if it will help much, but here is a picture of the snow. Also, my tubing is all less than 2 months old so I don't know that I would develop much build up in that amount of time. Plus wouldn't it eventually stop blowing? It's constant.

[Frankie]

Looks like sand particles to me. From what i read about ca++ precipitation it will be like a storm in the tank actually covering like snow. I don't see that in the picture.