Phosphate Question

[Melanie]

I noticed a small amount of cyano in my tank which I have been removing. I have tried all of the suggestions for getting rid of it, with the exception of a phosban reactor.

I have excellent flow, T5 lighting, a DSB refugium, a carbon reactor, and a great skimmer. I do weekly 10 percent water changes with RO water, and feed only frozen food (sparingly).

My reef is new (2 months old) so I'm assuming the cyano is part of the growing process I see in all new tanks. (72 gallon bowfront with about 80 gal total water volume and about 95 lbs. LR and 65 lbs. LS)

Here are my latest test results as of 1 PM on Sunday:

Temp 78
SG 1.0265 (slowly trying to lower it to 1.025)
Mg 1290
Nitrate 0
pH 8.3
Nitrite 0
Ammon. 0
Phos 0
Ca 480
dKH 10/179 ppm KH


My question is, if my phosphates have always been 0, will a phosban reactor help at all? If there are no phosphates to remove, isn't phosban removal media pretty pointless? Can it help in any way I'm not aware of?

[lcstorc]

Yes it can still help. The question will become which can get to the phosphates faster. The cyano or the Phosban? Right now you test at 0 because the algae is eating it. Keep manually removing the cyano as much as you can and add the phosban. Also since you don't have any light demanding corals try reducing the photo period on your lights or even leave them off for a couple of days.
Sounds like you are doing everything else right so it should slowly start to disappear.

[sasquatch]

Melanie,it looks like the only thing your not testing now is TDS, it could be the ro/di, prefilters do get full

[BigAl07]

Mel are you pre-rinsing your frozen foods before adding them to the tank? I know some (Cyclopeeze) you can't rinse but most of the larger foods you can and should rinse. Lots of phosphates in their packing materials which is commonly referred to as "Algae Rocket Fuel".

Hope you get it under control. It's a BEAST if not taken care of.

Allen

[Dentoid]

Phosphate test kits don't detect all forms of phosphate. The test may read zero, but phosphate is still present, that's is why using a phosphate removal media could help.

[Anselth]

Also, the cyano may be using the phosphate in the water faster than you can test for it. I had a huge hair algae problem, but my phosphates always read zero, because the algae was using it up as soon as it became available.

[DrHank]

Cyano can be a real pest. Another thing that it could is a change in spectrum of your T5s. All bulbs have a usable lifetime. Yours were almost a year old when you got them from me. I was having a little cyano (it's always there) and when I changed to MH, it went away nearly completely. You may want to look into changing tubes if nothing else works. If I still had the fixture, I was scheduled to rplace them at 18 months which would be in December. Also, those were the bulbs that came with the fixture which probably were not the best.

That's about the only other thing I can think of that may be contributing to the cyano.

[AQTCJAK]

I agree with everything said. Ther is a product I have mentioned this before Boyd Enterprises Chemi Clean it kills cyno with out damge to any thing in your tank & does not leave a trace behind

[JT101]

Originally Posted by Dentoid

Phosphate test kits don't detect all forms of phosphate. The test may read zero, but phosphate is still present, that's is why using a phosphate removal media could help.

If you cannot test for it, then how do you know it is there?

[JT101]

Originally Posted by Anselth

Also, the cyano may be using the phosphate in the water faster than you can test for it. I had a huge hair algae problem, but my phosphates always read zero, because the algae was using it up as soon as it became available.

Sorry, but I really don't understand the logic of this.

I see posts like this all the time and I really don't get it. It must be me.

I am not trying to be deliberately antagonistic, but I do not understand how a life form can be utilizing a compound that we know can be measured, but because the life form is there, we cannot.

By this logic, if you were to remove ALL the hair algae in this tank, then the phosphate would IMMEDIATELY rise to a measurable level. Correct?

Also, sometimes you will see posts in which large amounts of phosphates WERE being detected and there was also a hair algae problem. In this case, why was there measurable phosphate? Why wasn't the algae "using it up"?

Please help me understand!

Thanks
John

[Dentoid]

Originally Posted by JT101

If you cannot test for it, then how do you know it is there?

Unexplained cyano growth for one. There are 2 types of phosphate, organophosphate and inorganic phosphate. The hobbyist's tests do not test for all the forms of phosphate.

[JT101]

Originally Posted by Dentoid

Unexplained cyano growth for one. There are 2 types of phosphate, organophosphate and inorganic phosphate. The hobbyist's tests do not test for all the forms of phosphate.

OK, it's getting a little clearer now, thanks.

It's unfortunate that hobbyist test kits don't test for all forms. Are there commercial kits available? I would imagine that if there are they would be extremely expensive, no?

[BigAl07]

The more complex test kits not only cost more but many "More Accurate" kits require lab-like conditions and a degree of precision and "discipline" that most "hobbyists" wont/cant provide. It would be SWEET to have an all-in-one electronic testing station where you just drop some probes into the water and track the readout on the digital display. for many things that's just not possible or practical. Many of our tests kits are a slight compromise between accuracy and ease of use. It's a balance that's not easy to achieve.

Allen

[Anselth]

JT, simple supply and demand. Consider this analogy: An animal locked in an airtight room will eventually use up the oxygen in the room through respiration. If you check the room after the animal has expired, you will find negligible levels of oxygen. Doesn't mean it wasn't there. Algae are very good at assimilating nutrients that they need to survive. You're not testing your water every second of every day. Unless you're testing right after a feeding, if you have an algae problem, you're likely to get a reading of zero because free phosphates have probably already been assimilated into the algae's tissues. And no, removing all of the algae would not cause an immediate rise in phosphate, the same way that removing the expired animal from our airtight room will not immediately add oxygen to the room. It has been used by the organism for biological processes which fix the ion, removing it permanently from the system.

[BigAl07]

Nice analogy! Very nice indeed.

Allen