Calcium supplements and Kalk drip

[sasquatch]

Does anyone know if adding Turbo calcium to kalk water is ok, Im still showing calcium loss , do I need a reactor or can I just dose the drip juice?

[cheeks69]

I don't think it's a good idea as the water is already saturated with the kalk, I would dose it seperately.

[cheeks69]

Since I have a high cal/alk demand I'm dripping kalk and dosing a 2 part daily to maintain my parameters. How is your alk doing ?

[Frankie]

Turbo really works dosed separate.

[sasquatch]

Thanks guys, I have been topping off as needed for levels, alc is amazingly steady havent touched it since day one, mag seems to be every 2 weeks or so but it drops very slow, its got to be all that macro eating it up

[mps9506]

Yea, use the turbo calcium to bump up the calcium in your tank, not in the kalkwasser.
You can also use vinegar to increase the solubility of the lime in water.
What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
From the Randy;s article linked above:

Dosing limewater mixed with vinegar. The vinegar allows more solid lime to dissolve into the limewater, and limits the maximum pH that the aquarium will attain. Drawbacks include the possibility that bacterial growth will be driven by the acetate in the vinegar; the fact that some of the measured alkalinity may be acetate, which is not used by corals and coralline algae to calcify as far as I know; and that some impurities in the lime may dissolve in the presence of vinegar when they might settle out in its absence. Details behind the use of vinegar are given below. Limewater containing typical amounts of vinegar is still very high in pH and must be dosed slowly. Much of the vinegar’s pH reduction comes after it is metabolized by bacteria, as is shown later in this article.

Another potentially useful attribute of vinegar is that it can be used to help dissolve additional solid lime into limewater. It does this by reducing the hydroxide concentration in the limewater:

10. CH3OOH à CH3COO- + H+

The H+ combines with OH- in the limewater:

11. H+ + OH- à H2O

The actual dissolution of Ca(OH)2 is limited by the multiplication product of the calcium and hydroxide concentrations in the limewater as shown below:

12. Ca(OH)2 à Ca++ + 2OH-

13. [Ca++] x [OH-] x [OH-] £ 5.5 x 10-6

where [Ca++] is the concentration of calcium (in moles/L) and [OH-] is the concentration of hydroxide (in moles/L). Consequently, if you reduce the concentration of OH- via equations (10) and (11), then more Ca(OH)2 can dissolve into solution and still meet the equation (13) requirement.

This would seem like a concern, however, since losing OH- might reduce the amount of alkalinity delivered by the limewater. Luckily, this is not the case. While the OH- is temporarily reduced by the acetic acid in the vinegar, when bacteria metabolize the acetate, they release it back to the water:

14. CH3COO- + 2O2 à 2CO2 + H2O + OH-

Consequently, additional solid lime can be dissolved into limewater using vinegar.

How much can be used? The more vinegar that is used, the lower the pH of both the limewater and the aquarium will be. One reasonable point to shoot for is to add about the same amount of total CO2 via the vinegar as is needed by the lime to form HCO3-. This balance is roughly matched by using three level teaspoons of solid lime per gallon of limewater, and 45 ml of vinegar per gallon of limewater. For those aquarists choosing to use vinegar in limewater, these values are a suitable starting point. Note that the pH of the limewater is still quite high, so slow dosing is usually required.

What kind of vinegar should be used? Luckily, cheap distilled white vinegar is likely the best. More expensive flavored and colored vinegars, such as red wine vinegar, will deliver other unnecessary organic molecules to the aquarium, and are best avoided.

[sasquatch]

Mike, if the vinegar helps saturation will it also slow the rate it builds up on equipment?

[mps9506]

ummmm.... I would assume not if you are fully saturating the solution. I would suspect if you are dripping it near pump or heaters you will still get the same amount of calcium buildup.

[sasquatch]

That would be a nice issue to resolve, I shut off my return pump tonight and it wouldnt restart, opened it up and the shaft was locked solid to the impeller, the magnet was white and the housing was really coated, looks like more labour to me lol

[mps9506]

Can you move where the kalk is dripping?
If I remember correctly the calcium builds up because of the heat on those objects, thats why you find it on the magnet of the impellers, and heater tubes. If you can move the outlet of where your kalkwasser enters the water to someplace like where the water drains into the sump, it may help.

[sasquatch]

I did look at all that before hooking up, my sump is downstairs and thats the only place I could put the float, Im not overly concerned about the maintenance, I have the time and its probably good to be on top of developing problems anyway, this in reality is creative tinker time

[bluespotjawfish]

I was having this problem for a while. You might look at the rate or location where you are adding your calcium supplement. It may be reacting when you put it in the water. Dose it away from where you add the kalk and into a high flow area. If you were adding calcium directly with your kalk, that definitely will do it.

[cheeks69]

Can you move where the kalk is dripping?

IME the place where the dripping is done will not matter the calcium deposits will continue to build and unfortunately it cannot be stopped, at least I haven't figured out how to do it. I have broken a couple of impellars because of these deposits and now as part of my regular maintenance I take all the pumps/ph's apart every couple of months and run them in hot water/vinegar solution.

[sasquatch]

Thanks Blue! I dont think its the supplements, its the c/h getting to the hot pump bits to fast lol

[sasquatch]

Originally Posted by cheeks69

IME the place where the dripping is done will not matter the calcium deposits will continue to build and unfortunately it cannot be stopped, at least I haven't figured out how to do it. I have broken a couple of impellars because of these deposits and now as part of my regular maintenance I take all the pumps/ph's apart every couple of months and run them in hot water/vinegar solution.

Is CLR reef safe?