Alk/DKH to high, and why?

[Pro_builder]

Thanks but no thanks, that sounds like it could have some bad reprocutions.

[Boomer]

That is the correct answer Troy

[Woodstock]

Great thread you two

Water changes would lower the alk.... assuming the new salt water had a lower alk.

[Pro_builder]

Ok here is an update on Param's at 1:00 pm today.

Temp 78.1
Orp 354 (Is this ok, it used to be at 410)
Ca++ 395 (dropping from last reading of 420)
Alk 18.8 (Rising from last reading of 16 DKH)
pH 8.23 (.01 difference from last reading)

Is there something that I am missing here? I still don't understand why the Alk keeps Rising? My RO/DI Water has a DKH of 1.5
I will check the new salt water DKH in a few minutes, and report back to you.
I am using Instant Ocean salt, maybe I should change salt brands? If so, what would you recommend?

[Pro_builder]

Ok Alk of New Salt water is 10.9
Is there a chemical that could be in my system that I am not testing for that would raise the Alk this high?

[Pro_builder]

It has been 10 days since I did my 90 gallon water change to remove the phytoplankton in the tank. I had a Major green water problem. So bad that I couldn't see the back of the tank. That is when I put the Refugium on the system, so there was another 75 gallons of fresh salt water also added the very next day, so 9 days on that new water. This system is running over 330 gallons of water. I am evaporating at about 4 gallons per day.

[Boomer]

Orp 354 (Is this ok, it used to be at 410)

It is changing because of all the messing around and all the new salt additions. New salt is around 275 mV.

10.9 or even 11 is normal for IO these days.

This is my fault The first thing I should have asked you is What Salt Are You Using

Your low Alk demand, the high Alk of IO and the use of Kalk is what is pumping up the Alk to this 16 so it would normally seem. But the kalk is off correct ? So leave it alone and watch the pH and Alk and let them come down. There is nothing wrong with a Alk of 11. That is our max limit for a reef tank. I would stay with IO for now.

Your Alk can not rise from a WC when the salt mix is 11 dKH from 16 to 18.8. It has to go down unless you're adding a buffer of some kind. Have you ever added anything like Purple-Up to the tank ? Do you have any DIY rock ? What kind of sand do you ? If you Alk raised up that much the Ca++ would have to go up not down, if something is dissolving in the tank and I do not buy that..

What you say makes no sense. It is like someone is dumping in baking soda in your tank when you are not around

Take a sample of your 18 dKH or what ever water to the LFS and have them check it on a different kit. That is the only thing that makes sense a testing error or bad kit. Or something in the tank is interfering with the kit. Yah, I know you have two already, Salifert.

If your tank consumes 20 ppm Ca++ it has to consume at least 2.8 dKH, as long as no buffers are being added

[Pro_builder]

But the kalk is off correct ?
Yes, it is off and has been since you told me to.

It has to go down unless you're adding a buffer of some kind. Have you ever added anything like Purple-Up to the tank ?
No, nothing that I have added, but I have no idea what the LFS could have added to the tank that he had the LR in at the store.

Do you have any DIY rock ?
Not that I know of. I talked to the owner of the LFS and he says that he gets all of his LR from Walt Smith

What kind of sand do you ?
I am running Southdown sand (400 lbs of it. Seeded from LFS established tank.)

What you say makes no sense. It is like someone is dumping in baking soda in your tank when you are not around
My wife doesn't touch the tank, so that isn't an option.

Take a sample of your 18 dKH or what ever water to the LFS and have them check it on a different kit. That is the only thing that makes sense a testing error or bad kit. Or something in the tank is interfering with the kit. Yah, I know you have two already, Salifert.

Ok, just got back from the LFS, he tested it 2 times with a LaMonte test kit and a Salifert test kit of his own. Salifert reads 17.5 on both tests and LaMonte reads 18.1 on both tests.

How long should it take to drop this tank down?

Would a bad skimmer have anything to do with these readings?
I just bought a ETTS 800 but don't have it installed yet. The current skimmer is rated for a 900 gallon tank, by Emperor Aquatics for a commercial tank. Just a thought.

What are the chemicals or things that could happen, that would raise alk Besides Kalk, Baking soda, washing soda? Just trying to think of the things that I could be missing or overlooking. I have brand new RO membranes and filters coming Monday for my 300 gpd RO unit. Thinking maybe that will help.

It doesn't look like I have had a snow/ percipitation storm in the tank. If that would have happened, would that have changed the chestry of the water?

I am lost and about to give up and tear it all down and start over.

Oh, by the way I am on Well water with an IronOX system and a very large water softener, plus RO/ DI Unit.

Could my DI unit be bad? or leaching crystals into the RO water? They are the color changing type and aren't purple.

All help is Greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!! You have been a tremendous help.

[Boomer]

Sorry Troy, I just read all of that and there is nothing there that I can even remotely think of that can rasie your Alk, which appears to be rising, and seems to me doing so by Magic

It will take days to drop it down. Let it run, do nothng and just check the pH, Alk and Ca++ every other day and see what happens, is all I can tell you.

[Pro_builder]

Ok will do, I don't see any other choice.

[Pro_builder]

Boomer here is an update. There is no additives of any kind being added. I have just been replentishing with RO water. No water changes since 11/5/2006.

Orp 289
pH 8.02
Temp 79.9
Alk 15.2
Ca++ 470

What do you think?

[Boomer]

I still have no clue unless something in the tank is going into solution. We just had another guy on our chem forum with a similar situation. I beat on him like you Low and behold he got another test kit, even though he tested it and the LFS tested it, all those kits (3) where bad and read Alk to high. Not the new one, it was right where it was suppose to be. I also PM Randy about your problem, in case there was chance I missed something. He is as clueless as I and gave the same answers as I did.

Only 5 things can cause this

1. Testing error or bad kit

2. Something going into solution like a DIY rock or something that is not suppose to be in there.

3. Purple-Up or similar.

4. Bad batch of salt with high Alk.

5. Somebody is dumping in a buffer and you do not know it.

As I said before your Alk appears to be rising by Magic and that can not happen



6. A wild crazy theory. You have to much buffer in the seamix, bad batch and for some unknown reason, magic, it is not going into solution but when it hits your tank it them goes into solution==> High Alk

7. Wild theory #2. You are pulling on my chain and you are a Troll

Math;
If the new salt is 10 dKh and you do a 50% water change with the tank at 15, then resulting dKh has to be around 12.5, it can not go up higher than 15. I might add your Ca++ as also jumped up again from 395 to 470. And your tests from new salt in bucket is nowhere near that. Conclusion, there must be something in that tank going into solution. Find it

[Witfull]

troy, when you set up the tank, did you use any dry base rock that may have come from terrestrial location? this could be slowly leaching ALK.

[Pro_builder]

All rock came from Online store and local fish store.
No base rock used.
I did get another TDS meter and tested my RO water going into the tank, I am at 42 PPM TDS. Could this have something to do with it?

Boomer, I'm not a troll and pulling your chain. I think it is time for a complete tear down of the tank, and start over.

[Boomer]

, and start over

I don't like that idea Troy. Let it run for a month, maybe it will work itself out.

Troy measure the pH, Alk and Ca++ of the RO water. Then measure the pH, Alk and Ca++ fo the tap water. Not that it will mean much. If I assumed that 42 ppm TDS was all Calcium, then 42 x.40 = 17 ppp Ca++ added to the salt mix. If I assume it was all Alk 42/50 =.84 x 2.8 =2.3dkH added to the salt mix. BUT that does not show up in the salt mix test, as the salt mix is giving like 380 ppm Ca ++ and 10 dkH already mixed in the RO. So, the 42 ppm is meaningless. The rise, if there is one, is from/in the tank only.