Stored ro/di aggression

sasquatch · 11-09-2006, 07:27 PM

Came upon a thread (elsewhere) that stated because ro/di water is ion poor it will attack the storage container and absorb unwanted elements from the air. The suggestion was to keep aragonite sand in the ro/di container so it would go after the calcium carbonate in the sand, will this actually work and prebuffer the water, how long would the sand last, could this become an anerobic sludge farm? is ro/di water that bad for top offs without buffers. Thanks Steve

lgerold · 11-09-2006, 09:16 PM

Wow! A fantastic question!

I notice that my ro/di water begins to look kind of clumpy after several days. I see transparent globs floating in the water. I can also feel a film on the sides of the plastic tub. I always end up dumping water that worries me, but that sure is a waste, especially since it takes so much tie to make it.

I've tested that clumpy water, and no calc, no phos, no nitrates, no alk.

Can't wait for the answers to roll in!

Woodstock · 11-09-2006, 11:52 PM

Interesting Sasquatch... where is Boomer??

Keep in mind that ro/di water has no chlorine/chloramine that would otherwise disinfect the water. Allowing ro/di to sit will allow it to grow bacteria (slimmy, sometimes stinky).

Just add some kalkpowder to the ro/di prior to using it for top off.

sasquatch · 11-10-2006, 12:22 AM

Woodstock,why the kalkpowder other than the obvious??
Lucy, I get the slimy water and always wondered what that bacteria was doing. Steve

down and outman · 11-10-2006, 02:43 AM

Possibly try a UV sterilizer, like the 9 watt turbo twist. I was talking to the guy at the LFS, who makes his ro water and he was carrying on about the Glacier machines (where I get my water) using UV sterilizers both pre and post. I told him that as soon as the chlorine is gone from the water, bacteria can and will grow. He then backtracked and said he ought to check into that for his water storage.

Woodstock · 11-10-2006, 08:14 AM

The kalk is to buffer the ro/di water.

Boomer · 11-10-2006, 12:40 PM

Ok first don't anybody get mad at me

This is all pretty much nonsense. Yes RO/DI is ion poor, it is SUPPOSE to be. Will it pull things out of the air ? Yes, it will pull CO2 out of the air and lower the pH below 7. No, you can not check this with kit or meter, they will give false readings. Guess what kind of water research labs use for testing

Will it attack containers and pull out ions ? Yes if they are steel/metal ( other than SS) or the likes, i.e.. copper, lead.

Will the RO/DI dissolve the sand ? Yes, as its pH is low enough to. Any water with a pH that low will, not just because it is RO/DI. Will that sand buffer the water and raise the Ca++, etc... Yes, just like a Calcium reactor does or tap water will if the pH is that low.

Can/ will bacteria grow in it. Yes, that will happen in any water that is chorine/chloramine free, especially if the lid is open.

Does RO/DI water need to be buffered ? No. When water evaporates from your tank it is as how.......AS A GAS, water vapor and it has NO ions in it. It is more or less the same as RO/DI or Distilled water. The ions are left behind in your tank. If you have a FW tank and replace the evaporated water with just tap water, which has ions in it, the tank water will turn hard, due to the accumulation of the ions in the added tap water. If you add RO/DI the hardness will remain the same. Is it Ok to set up a FW tank with JUST RO/DI water. Of course not !

Can you add a buffer to your RO/DI water ? Yes, if you want to but there is no real need. Kalk is added to RO/DI water not to buffer it, but to buffer the tank, due to the tanks continuous want to lower the pH, Alk and Ca++. When you add straight RO/DI water it will take on the pH, Alk, Mg++, Ca++ etc, etc, of the tank. That is one of the purposes behind using RO/DI. For others, they use a kalk drip, which is kalk and RO/DI for controlling the pH, Alk and pH if the system can. We wish all tank demands of Ca++, pH and Alk could be done with just kalk, as it add no other ions like two-parts or DIY's, i.e., chlorides, sodium, sulfates, etc...

Woodstock · 11-10-2006, 01:37 PM

Thanks Boomer, karma to you~

sasquatch · 11-11-2006, 12:52 AM

Boomer, I doubt you will ever be mad at for making sense of "new fangled ideas" its amazing how people will really try to hardball an idea at you. Hail Boomer, King of Boom!!

lcstorc · 11-11-2006, 01:21 PM

Boomer,
How could we ever be mad at you? Not only do we value your expertise, but you could blow us all up.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.

justsunnie · 03-20-2007, 06:44 PM

If you want to store your RO/DI water without growing bacteria, use a UV sterilizer. I wouldn't store it for more than a week otherwise. If you wanted to store it longer you could sterilize your containers too; boiling should be fine. If you can't boil the container fill it with boiling water and let it sit with the lid on for at least 10-15min, then dump the water and return the lid immediately. That should help with the growth. Glass containers could be baked at 350F.

RO/DI only leaches ions from metal containers (ie rusting them), but I wouldn't worry about a plastic or glass container.

I work in a research lab, and we use RO water and UV sterilized RO water for many of our reactions. Every sink in every lab here has an RO tap.

(kudos, Boomer!)

11-09-2006, 07:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
sasquatch Brunt of all Jokes~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the very farthest west coast of canada Posts: 8,982 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Stored ro/di aggression Came upon a thread (elsewhere) that stated because ro/di water is ion poor it will attack the storage container and absorb unwanted elements from the air. The suggestion was to keep aragonite sand in the ro/di container so it would go after the calcium carbonate in the sand, will this actually work and prebuffer the water, how long would the sand last, could this become an anerobic sludge farm? is ro/di water that bad for top offs without buffers. Thanks Steve

11-09-2006, 09:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
lgerold Scopas Tang Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Brainerd, Mn Posts: 473 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Wow! A fantastic question! I notice that my ro/di water begins to look kind of clumpy after several days. I see transparent globs floating in the water. I can also feel a film on the sides of the plastic tub. I always end up dumping water that worries me, but that sure is a waste, especially since it takes so much tie to make it. I've tested that clumpy water, and no calc, no phos, no nitrates, no alk. Can't wait for the answers to roll in! __________________ Lucy Upgrade from 125 long to 210 on 1/7/07. 66 gallon sump/refugium. 10 hrs of light: 500 watt pc actinic 10 hrs 400 watt pc daylight 6 hrs 500 watt MH 4 hrs 180 lbs branch liverock. 100 lbs + assorted liverock. 3"+ DSB. Fish - Foxface, Yellow Tang, Mimic Tang, 2 Tomato Clowns, pair True Percula Clowns (and their 6 inch pastel green carpet), Mandarin, Scooter Blenny, Bartlett's Anthias, Royal Gramma, Pseudochromis Splendens. Blue/Gold Crocea Clam, Teardrop Squamosa Clam Coral favorites include: 2 Acanastreas, Pink Cynaria, Green Cynaria, Birdsnest, Trumpets, Red and Pink and Green Goniporas (3), Frogspawn (peach favorite), Fox Coral, Diploastrea, Blasto, 3 Fungia (orange, purple, and green) and many others.

11-09-2006, 11:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 25,502 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Interesting Sasquatch... where is Boomer?? Keep in mind that ro/di water has no chlorine/chloramine that would otherwise disinfect the water. Allowing ro/di to sit will allow it to grow bacteria (slimmy, sometimes stinky). Just add some kalkpowder to the ro/di prior to using it for top off. __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* *My Victorious Battle with ICH* 120 Reef Chronicle ~ *Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* *Massive 300 gal growout~* *My Anemone & Picasso Tank ~* *Picasso & Snowcasso for sale~* "Energy and persistance conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

11-10-2006, 12:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
sasquatch Brunt of all Jokes~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the very farthest west coast of canada Posts: 8,982 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Woodstock,why the kalkpowder other than the obvious?? Lucy, I get the slimy water and always wondered what that bacteria was doing. Steve

11-10-2006, 02:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
down and outman Fire Coral Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: LaGrange GA Posts: 68 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Possibly try a UV sterilizer, like the 9 watt turbo twist. I was talking to the guy at the LFS, who makes his ro water and he was carrying on about the Glacier machines (where I get my water) using UV sterilizers both pre and post. I told him that as soon as the chlorine is gone from the water, bacteria can and will grow. He then backtracked and said he ought to check into that for his water storage. __________________ "There you go lad, keep as cool as you can. Face piles of trials with smiles." Moody Blues 90 Gal AGA RR, 50 lbs caribean liverock, a bunch of agrocrete rock, 90# Caribsea Sugar Sand Nova Extreme HO T-5 Phosban reactor 2 Koralia 4's, Mag Drive 7

11-10-2006, 08:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 25,502 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression The kalk is to buffer the ro/di water. __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* *My Victorious Battle with ICH* 120 Reef Chronicle ~ *Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* *Massive 300 gal growout~* *My Anemone & Picasso Tank ~* *Picasso & Snowcasso for sale~* "Energy and persistance conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

11-10-2006, 12:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,609 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Ok first don't anybody get mad at me This is all pretty much nonsense. Yes RO/DI is ion poor, it is SUPPOSE to be. Will it pull things out of the air ? Yes, it will pull CO2 out of the air and lower the pH below 7. No, you can not check this with kit or meter, they will give false readings. Guess what kind of water research labs use for testing Will it attack containers and pull out ions ? Yes if they are steel/metal ( other than SS) or the likes, i.e.. copper, lead. Will the RO/DI dissolve the sand ? Yes, as its pH is low enough to. Any water with a pH that low will, not just because it is RO/DI. Will that sand buffer the water and raise the Ca++, etc... Yes, just like a Calcium reactor does or tap water will if the pH is that low. Can/ will bacteria grow in it. Yes, that will happen in any water that is chorine/chloramine free, especially if the lid is open. Does RO/DI water need to be buffered ? No. When water evaporates from your tank it is as how.......AS A GAS, water vapor and it has NO ions in it. It is more or less the same as RO/DI or Distilled water. The ions are left behind in your tank. If you have a FW tank and replace the evaporated water with just tap water, which has ions in it, the tank water will turn hard, due to the accumulation of the ions in the added tap water. If you add RO/DI the hardness will remain the same. Is it Ok to set up a FW tank with JUST RO/DI water. Of course not ! Can you add a buffer to your RO/DI water ? Yes, if you want to but there is no real need. Kalk is added to RO/DI water not to buffer it, but to buffer the tank, due to the tanks continuous want to lower the pH, Alk and Ca++. When you add straight RO/DI water it will take on the pH, Alk, Mg++, Ca++ etc, etc, of the tank. That is one of the purposes behind using RO/DI. For others, they use a kalk drip, which is kalk and RO/DI for controlling the pH, Alk and pH if the system can. We wish all tank demands of Ca++, pH and Alk could be done with just kalk, as it add no other ions like two-parts or DIY's, i.e., chlorides, sodium, sulfates, etc... __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11-10-2006, 01:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 25,502 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Thanks Boomer, karma to you~ __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* *My Victorious Battle with ICH* 120 Reef Chronicle ~ *Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* *Massive 300 gal growout~* *My Anemone & Picasso Tank ~* *Picasso & Snowcasso for sale~* "Energy and persistance conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

11-11-2006, 12:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
sasquatch Brunt of all Jokes~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the very farthest west coast of canada Posts: 8,982 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Boomer, I doubt you will ever be mad at for making sense of "new fangled ideas" its amazing how people will really try to hardball an idea at you. Hail Boomer, King of Boom!!

11-11-2006, 01:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 26,434 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression Boomer, How could we ever be mad at you? Not only do we value your expertise, but you could blow us all up. Thanks for the detailed explanation. __________________ Peace LYNN Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Lynn's frag tank experiment A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash.

03-20-2007, 06:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
justsunnie Ricordea Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 191 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Stored ro/di aggression If you want to store your RO/DI water without growing bacteria, use a UV sterilizer. I wouldn't store it for more than a week otherwise. If you wanted to store it longer you could sterilize your containers too; boiling should be fine. If you can't boil the container fill it with boiling water and let it sit with the lid on for at least 10-15min, then dump the water and return the lid immediately. That should help with the growth. Glass containers could be baked at 350F. RO/DI only leaches ions from metal containers (ie rusting them), but I wouldn't worry about a plastic or glass container. I work in a research lab, and we use RO water and UV sterilized RO water for many of our reactions. Every sink in every lab here has an RO tap. (kudos, Boomer!) __________________ Sunnie 46g bowfront reef RIP 12g nano Mar 06-Nov 07 10g prop 72g FOWLR

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