New RSM owner

[MatthewJ]

I posted this at reefcentral.com and got some decent info, but I'm glad to have found this site! I have specific questions about the RSM.

Last Christmas my brother purchased a Red Sea Max reef setup for his son. I jokingly told him at the time to let me know when he was ready to give up. Well, he called me a week ago and told me he couldn't get rid of the hair algae and he would drop it off. I've now got it setup and running. I like the looks of the package, but I'm not too sure about it functionally. One of the powerheads already has a short (explains the cowering clowns my brother mentioned). I've ordered a replacement powerhead and lights.

I'm looking for advice about next steps.

So, 29G volume. 3 largish pieces of live rock(guessing 30lbs). 2 clownfish and 4 snails. The live rock was scrubbed with a toothbrush (half-arsed it turns out after looking at the rock back in the tank). Everything else was scrubbed clean. New substrate.

When I took it apart to clean it, I noticed that it has one compartment in the back, below the powerheads, that contained a bag of carbon and a bag of ceramic media. In 10 months neither had ever been touched. For now, I've cleaned the ceramic media and replaced the carbon bag. Both were a pita to get get out. If the idea is to replace them every so often, I don't know how that's possible without making a holy mess in the tank. Is everybody else using these two items and if so how often do you change?

I also noticed that in another compartment I'm supposed to have some sort of mechanical fine/course media. I have the course sponge-like media, but not the fine media. Nobody seems to sell this specific part online either. Can I just use any "cut-to-size" fine media?

I've read a few posts about cutting the course media (the sponge) to increase flow, and that it was done at the factory in later models?. Mine is already beveled on one side, is that the change that increases flow or is there something else I'm supposed to do.

I've already done the "hole in the skimmer cup" modification. Is there a list of changes folks are making to improve the efficiency of this?

Are reefers still doing "berlin" style tanks? I had a 75G berlin style reef tank about 8 years ago or so and just had a Top Fathom skimmer...no other filtering. I was only moderately successful at best, but I was a college punk back then to;-)

[tyleratl]

Hi. Welcome Aboard! Most on here, myself included, would probably suggest that you get rid of the ceramic media and carbon under the pumps. The ceramic isn't needed since you're using live rock that will perform the function much better anyway and not drive the nitrates up. The carbon can be better placed elsewhere to make it easier to change on a regular basis. I have mine along with some Chemi-Pure Elite in an add-on canister filter, but you could place it just above the black sponge that is on top of the skimmer pump. Actually, you could probably just get rid of the sponge if you wanted.

[Scooterman]

I wouldn't use any of the media they supply with the unit. having to remove the little ph's is a pain & on the other side a detritus trap. Without anything it should clear up after a while. JMO!

[MatthewJ]

Originally Posted by Scooterman

I wouldn't use any of the media they supply with the unit. having to remove the little ph's is a pain & on the other side a detritus trap. Without anything it should clear up after a while. JMO!

So did you add some additional external filtering then?

[Reefmack]

myusernameRocks - first of all........
to Reef Sanctuary and the RSM Club! due to some "extenuating circumstances" on that other forum, most of the owners that participated have moved here to Reef Sanctuary, where the staff have been kind enough to have given us our own little RSM section. If you got into that neverending thread on the RC forum you can realize how difficult it became to ever try to relocate important information when it became buried somewhere in the previous thread splits! With our new RSM "home" we're trying to avoid that situation by creating separate threads for separate issues, mods, etc. Great to see you started off with a new post! Don't forget to delve into the rest of Reef Sanctuary and post elsewhere - there's a lot of good information here, and not all of it is in this section.

Anyway, good luck on the newly aquired RSM! You're not new to the hobby, so I'm sure you already know quite a bit more than some of us did when we got started. steveh of Red Sea also stops in here to offer help and even started a post of his own as he resets up his RSM tank.

10 months of not changing the media under those pumps is a looooong time, and was probably a major cause of the algae problem your brother had. That media had to be a prime source of detritis build-up, and algae feeding nitrate generation! No, it's not easy to get at that media. The majority of us have removed the ceramic bio-media and let our rock handle the nitrogen cycle, including conversion and elimination of the end product nitrates as well. If I kept anything at all under the pumps I'd suggest a long lasting chemical media like Chemi-Pure Elite - something that doesn't require a change except every few months. See steveh's new thread for some good advice:

RSM- by the book

He's running some carbon above the skimmer pump, and only the black sponge. Most have us have found that putting a fine grained media above the skimmer pump causes that type of media to compact pretty quickly, cutting down the flow through the back, starving the pumps, and creating a lot of microbubbles as the end result. Keeping the level up in back is key to improving skimmer efficiency as well as keeping the two pumps from pulling in air & creating microbubbles.

The fine filter pad can be used for those times that you're creating a lot of "dust" in the tank. in any case rinse out whatever pad or sponge you have above the skimmer pump, ever few days, to keep the flow up, and to keep it from getting a lot of detritis in it (nitrates again). For the fine pad, a lot of us buy a large piece of bonded filter pad and cut pieces to fit. It sounds like your black sponge already has the recommended corner cut off, so that's good.

30 lbs. of rock is a good start - if you're going to have corals some may come on rock, so you have room to add more rock. I'm at about 55-60 lbs. now.

It seems like everyone does things a bit differently, and what works for one doesn't always work for another. Hopefully some of your questions have been answered, so keep asking. There are enough owners in here with RSM experience that you should get a lot of help. Good luck

[Scooterman]

Originally Posted by myusernameRocks

So did you add some additional external filtering then?

No I replaced the skimmer with an Aqua-C hang on & fixing to upgrade that to even a better one.
I replace large water volumes at once, but I'd leave that idea to the more experienced because if not done right could cause major issues.

Follow the link reefmack was talking about, lots of good information there.

[MatthewJ]

Thanks all. I will remove the ceramic media tonight and move the carbon media above the skimmer pump. I just ordered some Chemi-Pure Elite. I already see a fair amount of algae growing, which concerns me. I've been leaving the lights off because of that(I did not the first 2 days). The live rock was pretty nasty smelling and algae covered, so I figured maybe I should treat it like it was uncured. The test kit that came with the tank says I have ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. All at the lowest detectable levels of the kit though.

I'm planning to do 10% water changes every 3-4 days. I was planning to slowly ramp up the lighting once I got the new bulbs (should be today). What do you folks recommend as far as the lights go(turn them on and if so, for how long) There are no corals now, just the 2 fish and the snails. The snails appear to be eating the algae.

[Reefmack]

myusernameRocks - yep it sounds like you're enduring a cycle. Hopefully it won't be a long one. Be suspicious of low nitrate readings - it may be the algae consuming the nitrates as quick as they're being generated. I wouldn't leave the lights on more than a few hours for a while. With no corals you may not even need any lights on for a while (kinda boring though) to starve the algae. Are you running the skimmer? There are different opinions on whether or not to run a skimmer during a cycle, but IMO I think it's a good thing if you have die-off on the rock, to get rid of nasty junk in the water. Is it hair algae, or another type like Caulerpa or Bryopsis?

[MatthewJ]

Originally Posted by Reefmack

myusernameRocks -Are you running the skimmer?

yep. It hasn't collected too much though.

Is it hair algae, or another type like Caulerpa or Bryopsis?

umm...not positive. I never really had an algae problem before(well, a few bubble algae, but that's it). Could be Bryopsis, but I would guess hair algae. It doesn't seem to have the structure like either of those (based on images.google.com). Here's a snapshot:

[Reefmack]

Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like hair algae from what I can see. It doesn't look as bad as I expected though, so maybe the snails will take care of it. Have you tried using Photobucket for posting images? It's free and easy once you get the hang of it, plus the pictures will be larger.

[MatthewJ]

Originally Posted by Reefmack

Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like hair algae from what I can see. It doesn't look as bad as I expected though, so maybe the snails will take care of it. Have you tried using Photobucket for posting images? It's free and easy once you get the hang of it, plus the pictures will be larger.

I think the algae problem is actually getting better. From last night to this morning it seems to have improved. I'm going to see what happens the next couple days. re: photobucket...I'll look into it. I've seen it used before, but I just don't use forums all that much so never took the time. I suspect it'll be worth the effort now

[Reefmack]

myusernameRocks - how's the algae situation?

[MatthewJ]

not so good. much worse really which is kind of discouraging. I'm probably just too impatient. I decide to turn the lights on the next day for 8 hours. I keep thinking that the live rock needs it. That's probably not the case is it? Anyway, the algae really loved that. That stuff grows fast!

I had/have a number of things working against me. I started with tap water. I only had one working powerhead (that's been fixed). I had old lighting. I've since replaced one and I'm still waiting for the other. I'm going to keep the lights off until the nitrites are zero. I'll do a largish water change and the gradually start turning the lights on. Unless someone wiser advises me otherwise.

The skimmer really isn't doing squat. Maybe a tablespoon a day...at most.
I'm wondering...is there a point where I should just give up on this live rock? Sorry for all the questions.

[Reefmack]

Starting out with tap water didn't help I'm sure. Are you running a phosphate remover media, something like Chemi-Pure Elite or a media with ferric oxide in it? The CPE is good, but the best place for it is probably under the pumps, to keep the flow up in back. It doesn't need to be changed more often than every few months. There's a phosphate removal pad also, but I can't remember what it's called. In addition to tap water I've read that one of the algae promoters is the bit of phosphate that come in with the salt mix - in a new tank, with all new saltwater, that also increases phosphate levels at the beginning. Phosphate and nitrates are both algae promoters.

If you have no corals there should be no life on the rock that needs any light to survive - inverts, etc. don't need light, and fish don't either. Keeping the lights off for a few days can help, but the food source for the algae needs to be controlled or it will just return when the lights are back on. Replacing the lights should also help, as when bulbs age the light spectrum tends to shift to one that tends to promote algae. I don't think you have any clean up crew yet. If your ammonia and nitrite levels are OK, you should get some snails - Turbos are great algae eaters. Nasarrius snails are good to keep the substrate clean. Hermit crabs are good algae eaters too, but I learned the hard way that hermits love to eat up small snails. Although a lot of folks don't like any crabs at all, IMO emerald crabs are great algae eaters and a good part of the clean up crew. I've never had a problem with emeralds bothering any other life in my tank.

If it were me I would not get rid of the rock - you could spend a lot of money to get all new rock and have the same problem. The algae stages are just something that most folks just have to live through when starting a tank. Concentrate on eliminating the algae food sources, or controlling it with critters. It's a real PITA, but pulling all or some of the rock out and scrubbing the algae off in a bucket of SW with a clean brush can help. When you physically get rid of the algae itself, you have in effect permanently "exported" out of the tank those nutrients that the algae consumed.

On the skimmer, maybe at this time try running it every other day to see if it skims better? Just a guess on trying that.

One of the big things that's always stressed is having patience, especially at the beginning. I've never had much, and it can be tough to have patience!

[MatthewJ]

Originally Posted by Reefmack

Starting out with tap water didn't help I'm sure. Are you running a phosphate remover media, something like Chemi-Pure Elite or a media with ferric oxide in it? The CPE is good, but the best place for it is probably under the pumps, to keep the flow up in back. It doesn't need to be changed more often than every few months.

per your previous advice, I just got some CPE. I have it above the skimmer pump though. I will move it below the powerheads, but does it matter that I don't have the ceramic media or carbon back there (so it will rest at the bottom of the tank)?

I don't think you have any clean up crew yet. If your ammonia and nitrite levels are OK, you should get some snails - Turbos are great algae eaters.

I have what I believe are 4 turbo snails. they do eat the algae. someone else also recommended a emerald crab. I'd like to get more, but I'm very hesitant to add creatures given that I can't quite get my tank to cycle like I expected it to.

My pH has dropped to about 8.0 from 8.3....even after a 10+% water change. I don't understand this.
This seems to indicate that my water quality is getting worse, not better. I rarely feed the fish (maybe once every 3 days). Maybe the water from Walmart just sucks. I'm going to get a TDS meter and see what it shows. I really wasn't expecting to have to get a RO system, but I'm leaning that way more as each day passes. I just got a digital thermometer and refractometer, both of which are sweet. I was using the plastic kind that tested both and the temperature was WAY off. The SG was okay.

Thanks for all your help with this reefmack!