Adding Ozone to a Reef? - Page 4

JaxReef · 09-14-2006, 04:02 PM

I use ozone, its great

300mg/hr on a orp controller. I keep orp around 430mv
water is very clear
it reduces algae growth
fights fish illness, helps heal torn fins
Makes skimmate dark

Now if its used correctly you should only have ozone in the skimmer chamber and not the tank.

I have an cheap enaly generator. if it breaks I buy another.

boozeman · 09-14-2006, 04:25 PM

will using ozone in your skimmer cause it to break?

Boomer · 09-14-2006, 05:51 PM

Ozone will attach cheap plastics turing them yellow, a sign of the plastic deteroating. This will make them more brittle and subject to easier cracking, if you are not careful with them. I have yet seen a skimmer break from ozone. Most skimmers now, the good ones, are acrylic where there is little effect on them from ozone.

squaregrouper · 09-14-2006, 06:04 PM

Boomer,
I would liike you to provide the source that gave you the information that ozone's half life in seawater is only a few seconds.
I have spoken with my Director of Water Quality, Curator, and our Chief Engineer. We ALL disagree with that statement.
I fully understood the articles. Don't patronize me with big words, assuming I will get confused and back down. I know what I am talking about. I work with ozone daily on a scale larger than you have ever worked with, typing on a forum and reading articles does not substitute hands on experience.
PS- Try using a spell checker, or at least proof read your work.

Let the flame war begin!!!

blue_eyes53813 · 09-14-2006, 06:17 PM

Witfull · 09-14-2006, 06:27 PM

no flaming,,,,but discussion is welcome~

Witfull · 09-14-2006, 06:33 PM

Boomer,,ask randy to come here and discuss it,,he is welcome.

boozeman · 09-14-2006, 07:25 PM

that would be great discussion...I need to learn as much as I can about ozone!

Boomer · 09-14-2006, 08:19 PM

PS- Try using a spell checker, or at least proof read your work.

Usually when guys like yourself, that do not know what they are talking about and have dug and continue to dig themselves a whole they go for this remark

Um.....ah......try to use spell checker there bud "liike". Usually people like you that like to throw this out mess up themselves.

Other words you have misspelled in your post so almighty.

expain , zooxanthalae, oxidixing

I'm sure I missed some

I would liike you to provide the source that gave you the information that ozone's half life in seawater is only a few seconds.

I already posted it above, where is your source saying I'm wrong ?

Here let me help you

Ozone Kinetics in Seawater by F. A . Steslow, from the NJ State Aquarium

Not to mention Randy's article

Ozone (O3) is a gas at room temperature, but is not stable enough to be stored in a bottle. Because it is unstable, aquarists always generate it on site just before use. The mechanisms for generating ozone will be detailed in this series' next article, but in short, ozone is generated by splitting apart oxygen molecules (O2) from the air and letting them recombine into ozone.

At low temperatures (below -180° C), ozone can be condensed to a dark blue liquid. It has a pleasant, sweet odor which permits aquarists to detect when it is being formed or released, although it is also potentially toxic. When added to seawater, it has a***** very short half life of only a few seconds before it breaks down.********

And lets not forget

Ozonation of seawater differs primarily from the ozonation of fresh water. The
reactions with bromide and the reactions caused by an elevated pH alter the chemistry in
salty water. Ozone oxidizes bromide, which both consumes ozone and generates
bromine. The half-life of ozone in the seawater is only**** 3.5 sec.**** due to the presence of
bromide. The composition of coastal water increases the ozone demand

Reffffffffffffffffffffffffffeeeeeer

Experiments with ultraviolet
light, ultrasound and ozone
technologies for onboard
ballast water treatment
Jukka Sassi & Jorma Rytkönen
VTT Industrial Systems
Satu Viitasalo
Finnish Institute of Marine Research.

Um. ah ....did you even look at Randy's ref. I thought not

Should I continue with more of the same ? I can do this all day

In FW it is about 15 min, case young are wondering.

What water are you treating ? Is it seawater ? Does it have bromide in it ?

I have spoken with my Director of Water Quality, Curator, and our Chief Engineer. We ALL disagree with that statement.

I don't care what he says. Where's YOUR proof. All you are doing is talking and say nothing. Give me some data or chemistry as to where I'm wrong. Yah can't can you

I fully understood the articles. Don't patronize me with big words, assuming I will get confused and back down. I know what I am talking about. I work with ozone daily on a scale larger than you have ever worked with, typing on a forum and reading articles does not substitute hands on experience.

You do not have clue what you are talking about and is why you are not talking real chemistry. You have not talked about anything. Just because you work there does not mean you understand its chemistry. Your, Director ? Bring him here, or is that a flat NO. I know I can bring Randy here.

If you want to have debate with me and Randy on ozone kinetics in seawater, then start taking chemistry. Show me/us where I'm wrong ?

I can only imagine what Randy will say when I tell him he does not know what he is talking about.

Boomer · 09-14-2006, 08:36 PM

Witt

Randy has been PM. He has been very busy this week at work and has been taxed on the chem forum also. I'm pretty sure he will be here sooner or later.

boozeman · 09-14-2006, 08:43 PM

gentlemen...remember we are here to learn

mattie · 09-14-2006, 09:38 PM

wow I though i knew enough about ozone from the aquarium books i have at home
the complete marine aquarium
marine reef aquarium handbook
the new saltwater aquarium handbook
and ozone for dummies...... JK.
wow too much reading
ozone has its benefits and its cautions
i just know for fact, what i have seen which is its ability to pull all the of the yellow or green tint from aquarium water within 24hrs
which is why I like. i do not run it all the time cause some corals like the water alittle dirty i just don't like the tint in the water
i did find it interesting to read about the bromide effect. i never heard of it before and i know alot of people who have been using ozone for much longer than me without issue so thats why i began.
i guess if you maintain you aquarium thru water changes these build ups should stay under control....?
I don't know where i read it but i guess i must have been mistaken becouse i really thought that as the ozone broke down it released O2. but the effect could be very very small. just like the effect of a calcium reactor releasing CO2 into your tank.
so i guess that part is settled in my mind.

I have a question thou would a bigger scale than one could imagine be > 45k gallon aquarium with lots of really big fish
if so i will go sit in front of my aquarium now and be quiet for a while

JaxReef · 09-14-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squaregrouper

Boomer,
I would liike you to provide the source that gave you the information that ozone's half life in seawater is only a few seconds.
I have spoken with my Director of Water Quality, Curator, and our Chief Engineer. We ALL disagree with that statement.
I fully understood the articles. Don't patronize me with big words, assuming I will get confused and back down. I know what I am talking about. I work with ozone daily on a scale larger than you have ever worked with, typing on a forum and reading articles does not substitute hands on experience.
PS- Try using a spell checker, or at least proof read your work.

Let the flame war begin!!!

is this reef central or reef sanctuary?

JaxReef · 09-15-2006, 12:55 AM

I don't understand is why buy an ozone generator that has a controlled output. The redsea units have a dial that can control the mg/hr. You will still use an ORP controller even if its built in to shut the generator off. These units are very expensive. for under 200 dollars you can get a enaly generator and a controller. The enaly units are 300mg/hr and are cheap. I know fellow reefers who bought a redsea all in one unit and had them break in 6 months.

Also there are 2 types of generators available to us as hobbyists. The corona discharge units which pass electrical currents back and forth charging O2 to produce O3 ( ozone) and the uv light method. I prefer Corona Discharge. Here is a link http://www.lenntech.com/ozone/ozone-generation.htm

RandyHF · 09-16-2006, 09:47 AM

FWIW, Boomer did a great job of explaining ozone.

Ozone is very different in seawater than in fresh because it very rapidly reacts with bromide and other ions in seawater that are not present in freshwater at similar concentrations. That is why the half life is so short in seawater. I believe that I gave scientific literature references in my articles to all of the facts that I claimed. there are 72 such references at the end of the first article.

IMO, the resons to use ozone (why I continue to use it) are to make the water clearer and to possibly reduce the organic load in the water, including toxins.

View Poll Results: Do you use ozone on your reef tank?
Yes	14	19.44%
No	47	65.28%
Would like to if others say it helps...	10	13.89%
Never ever that stuff is BAD!!	1	1.39%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

09-14-2006, 04:02 PM	#46 (permalink)
JaxReef Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? I use ozone, its great 300mg/hr on a orp controller. I keep orp around 430mv water is very clear it reduces algae growth fights fish illness, helps heal torn fins Makes skimmate dark Now if its used correctly you should only have ozone in the skimmer chamber and not the tank. I have an cheap enaly generator. if it breaks I buy another.

09-14-2006, 04:25 PM	#47 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? will using ozone in your skimmer cause it to break? __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

09-14-2006, 05:51 PM	#48 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? Ozone will attach cheap plastics turing them yellow, a sign of the plastic deteroating. This will make them more brittle and subject to easier cracking, if you are not careful with them. I have yet seen a skimmer break from ozone. Most skimmers now, the good ones, are acrylic where there is little effect on them from ozone. __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

09-14-2006, 06:04 PM	#49 (permalink)
squaregrouper Tubeworm Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bodymore Murderland Posts: 26 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? Boomer, I would liike you to provide the source that gave you the information that ozone's half life in seawater is only a few seconds. I have spoken with my Director of Water Quality, Curator, and our Chief Engineer. We ALL disagree with that statement. I fully understood the articles. Don't patronize me with big words, assuming I will get confused and back down. I know what I am talking about. I work with ozone daily on a scale larger than you have ever worked with, typing on a forum and reading articles does not substitute hands on experience. PS- Try using a spell checker, or at least proof read your work. Let the flame war begin!!! __________________ Anything I say, type or think, is my personal opinion, and has nothing to do with my employer or place of employment.

09-14-2006, 06:17 PM	#50 (permalink)
blue_eyes53813 Hey!Its not my fault Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lancaster, Wisconsin Posts: 7,142 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? __________________ 265 Gallon Reef built into basement wall. Lighting = 6x250 watts MH, 2x96 watt PC ,and 2x140 watt VHO for a total watt of 1,972 watts . New addition on 4-14-07 of 100 gallon sump and 100 gallon refugium. I think I have lost my mind. Gotta love this hobby Vicki Life is like a pathway of untrodden snow. Be careful how you step in it for every mark will show Definition of FRIENDSHIP: All lives touch other lives to create something new and alive My tank chronicles. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...wall-reef.html

09-14-2006, 07:25 PM	#53 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? that would be great discussion...I need to learn as much as I can about ozone! __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

09-14-2006, 08:19 PM	#54 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? PS- Try using a spell checker, or at least proof read your work. Usually when guys like yourself, that do not know what they are talking about and have dug and continue to dig themselves a whole they go for this remark Um.....ah......try to use spell checker there bud "liike". Usually people like you that like to throw this out mess up themselves. Other words you have misspelled in your post so almighty. expain , zooxanthalae, oxidixing I'm sure I missed some I would liike you to provide the source that gave you the information that ozone's half life in seawater is only a few seconds. I already posted it above, where is your source saying I'm wrong ? Here let me help you Ozone Kinetics in Seawater by F. A . Steslow, from the NJ State Aquarium Not to mention Randy's article Ozone (O3) is a gas at room temperature, but is not stable enough to be stored in a bottle. Because it is unstable, aquarists always generate it on site just before use. The mechanisms for generating ozone will be detailed in this series' next article, but in short, ozone is generated by splitting apart oxygen molecules (O2) from the air and letting them recombine into ozone. At low temperatures (below -180° C), ozone can be condensed to a dark blue liquid. It has a pleasant, sweet odor which permits aquarists to detect when it is being formed or released, although it is also potentially toxic. When added to seawater, it has a*** very short half life of only a few seconds before it breaks down.**** And lets not forget Ozonation of seawater differs primarily from the ozonation of fresh water. The reactions with bromide and the reactions caused by an elevated pH alter the chemistry in salty water. Ozone oxidizes bromide, which both consumes ozone and generates bromine. The half-life of ozone in the seawater is only 3.5 sec. due to the presence of bromide. The composition of coastal water increases the ozone demand Reffffffffffffffffffffffffffeeeeeer Experiments with ultraviolet light, ultrasound and ozone technologies for onboard ballast water treatment Jukka Sassi & Jorma Rytkönen VTT Industrial Systems Satu Viitasalo Finnish Institute of Marine Research. Um. ah ....did you even look at Randy's ref. I thought not Should I continue with more of the same ? I can do this all day In FW it is about 15 min, case young are wondering. What water are you treating ? Is it seawater ? Does it have bromide in it ? I have spoken with my Director of Water Quality, Curator, and our Chief Engineer. We ALL disagree with that statement. I don't care what he says. Where's YOUR proof. All you are doing is talking and say nothing. Give me some data or chemistry as to where I'm wrong. Yah can't can you I fully understood the articles. Don't patronize me with big words, assuming I will get confused and back down. I know what I am talking about. I work with ozone daily on a scale larger than you have ever worked with, typing on a forum and reading articles does not substitute hands on experience. You do not have clue what you are talking about and is why you are not talking real chemistry. You have not talked about anything. Just because you work there does not mean you understand its chemistry. Your, Director ? Bring him here, or is that a flat NO. I know I can bring Randy here. If you want to have debate with me and Randy on ozone kinetics in seawater, then start taking chemistry. Show me/us where I'm wrong ? I can only imagine what Randy will say when I tell him he does not know what he is talking about. __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More !** The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

09-14-2006, 08:36 PM	#55 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? Witt Randy has been PM. He has been very busy this week at work and has been taxed on the chem forum also. I'm pretty sure he will be here sooner or later. __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

09-14-2006, 08:43 PM	#56 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? gentlemen...remember we are here to learn __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

09-14-2006, 09:38 PM	#57 (permalink)
mattie RS Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Torrance CA Posts: 522 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? wow I though i knew enough about ozone from the aquarium books i have at home the complete marine aquarium marine reef aquarium handbook the new saltwater aquarium handbook and ozone for dummies...... JK. wow too much reading ozone has its benefits and its cautions i just know for fact, what i have seen which is its ability to pull all the of the yellow or green tint from aquarium water within 24hrs which is why I like. i do not run it all the time cause some corals like the water alittle dirty i just don't like the tint in the water i did find it interesting to read about the bromide effect. i never heard of it before and i know alot of people who have been using ozone for much longer than me without issue so thats why i began. i guess if you maintain you aquarium thru water changes these build ups should stay under control....? I don't know where i read it but i guess i must have been mistaken becouse i really thought that as the ozone broke down it released O2. but the effect could be very very small. just like the effect of a calcium reactor releasing CO2 into your tank. so i guess that part is settled in my mind. I have a question thou would a bigger scale than one could imagine be > 45k gallon aquarium with lots of really big fish if so i will go sit in front of my aquarium now and be quiet for a while __________________ www.reef-care.com

09-15-2006, 12:55 AM	#59 (permalink)
JaxReef Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? I don't understand is why buy an ozone generator that has a controlled output. The redsea units have a dial that can control the mg/hr. You will still use an ORP controller even if its built in to shut the generator off. These units are very expensive. for under 200 dollars you can get a enaly generator and a controller. The enaly units are 300mg/hr and are cheap. I know fellow reefers who bought a redsea all in one unit and had them break in 6 months. Also there are 2 types of generators available to us as hobbyists. The corona discharge units which pass electrical currents back and forth charging O2 to produce O3 ( ozone) and the uv light method. I prefer Corona Discharge. Here is a link http://www.lenntech.com/ozone/ozone-generation.htm

09-16-2006, 09:47 AM	#60 (permalink)
RandyHF Tunicate Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Adding Ozone to a Reef? FWIW, Boomer did a great job of explaining ozone. Ozone is very different in seawater than in fresh because it very rapidly reacts with bromide and other ions in seawater that are not present in freshwater at similar concentrations. That is why the half life is so short in seawater. I believe that I gave scientific literature references in my articles to all of the facts that I claimed. there are 72 such references at the end of the first article. IMO, the resons to use ozone (why I continue to use it) are to make the water clearer and to possibly reduce the organic load in the water, including toxins.

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