Adding Ozone to a Reef?

[boozeman]

wowza...that was some good reading

[billyr98]

looks like we need ozone as TOTW next week

[Boomer]

Ozone can be dangerous.........YES

effluent should be monitored for ORP increases......YES OR TANK

it does not reduce algae growth........YES IT DOES KINDA. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT TO HIM. HE HAS USED IT ONLY A SHORT TIME. IT IS MORE ON THE ODRER THAT UNWATNED ALAGE DISAPPEARS AND THE MORE WANTED APPEAR. IT TAKES A FEW WEEKS TO DO THIS NOT 4 DAYS.

it does clarify water........YES

it may or may not increase o2.. if so only 0-1ppm.......NO HE IS GUESSING. IN MY 25 YEARS OF ACTUALLY MEASURING O2 AND OTHERS IT DOES ABOUT NIL.

A strict reading of the values that I obtained suggests a small rise of between 0 and 1 ppm in O2 in my main tank. However, the kit is hard to read in the 5-8 ppm range, so the oxygen could have risen by 0-1 ppm, or more, or perhaps not at all.

I gave him a $150.00 O2 kit that measures O2 to .02 mg. But he did not go buy new reagents for it and used a hobby kit And a color match kit yet

[Woodstock]

Ummmm Boomer.. I think YOU should perform the test next time!

Thanks for the extra info

[Boomer]

I can't Randy has all my stuff

[squaregrouper]

Originally Posted by boozeman

I have always noted that tanks using ozone seem alot clearer..the water looks polished.
btw..after looking at that insanely large ozone generator in the baltimore aquarium...maybe squaregrouper can tell us more on ozone.

To expain ozone in a rather simple way I would say ozone is O3 (oxygen oxygen oxygen) Oxygen doesn't want to be in that form so it is looking for something to add its extra "O" to, thus changing its chemical composition (oxidizing) or looking for something to pull an atom off of (reducing).
Once the ozone has oxidized or reduced another molecule the byproduct is O2 (oxygen oxygen) which is helpful for the aquarium.


The issue with ozone is that if too much is used, and there isn't enough "funk" for the ozone to attack it will find something else to attack. The latter being gills, tentacles, zooxanthalae, etc.
Carbon is not as helpful in removing ozone from the water column as many people believe. The safest method is to use a small enough dose that the ozone is all utilized in the skimmer or reactor before returning to the exhibit/aquarium. As long as the effluent of the skimmer/reactor is under +/- 400mv it is safe to say that the bulk of the ozone has been utilized before leaving the skimmer.
I am a proponent of under dosing ozone, using it to enhance the action of a protein skimmer on a home aquarium. IMO, a standard Berlin Skimmer, with a small ozonizer will out perform the biggest and baddest unit ETSS has to offer. Remember, don't overdo the ozone,and I HIGHLY recommend using a controller to automatically turn off the ozone when the Redox/ORP/mv reaches the setpoint.
Hope this helps.

[Boomer]

I would say ozone is O3 (oxygen oxygen oxygen) Oxygen doesn't want to be in that form so it is looking for something to add its extra "O" to, thus changing its chemical composition (oxidizing) or looking for something to pull an atom off of (reducing).
Once the ozone has oxidized or reduced another molecule the byproduct is O2 (oxygen oxygen) which is helpful for the aquarium.

This is almost all wrong. O3 is an oxidizer it does not reduce anything. O3 adds about nil O2 to a tank, if any at all

The issue with ozone is that if too much is used, and there isn't enough "funk" for the ozone to attack it will find something else to attack. The latter being gills, tentacles, zooxanthalae, etc.

This is also in error. Ozone in seawater is gone in seconds. The part to worry about is the bromide ion being oxidized to bromine ( a bleach) which must be removed with GAC

Carbon is not as helpful in removing ozone from the water column as many people believe

It most cetanily is and it is not ozone that is being removed, it is ozone oxidants, which are not ozone.

As long as the effluent of the skimmer/reactor is under +/- 400mv it is safe to say that the bulk of the ozone has been utilized before leaving the skimmer.

That means nothing and is very misleading.

Did you read the three articles I posted on ozone chemistry ?

[squaregrouper]

Boomer, I am not starting a flame war, I was merely trying to explain ozonation for the home aquarist.
I didn't see a need to explain the technicalities of Triatomic Oxygen, such as its unique ability to oxidize inorganics as well as organics, Polyvinyl chloride included (yes ozone is oxidixing your PVC destruct unit as we speak).

1) I was explaining that the byproduct of ozone is oxygen, and that it is not dangerous
2) How many seconds is "gone in seconds in seawater"? You are quite misleading on that one. High concentrations of ozone in seawater will kill an animal with one breath.
3) GAC is a fine absorption media, but does not work as a catalyst in the way products such as Carulite does. It will not efficiently revert ozone back to oxygen.
4) Most home aquarists go not have access to analyzers such as a Hach Mass Spectrophotometer to get quantitive concentrations of residuals such as bromides. It is much more practical to measure the millivolts of the water to know that nothing is "tragically wrong" Most home aquarists also don't have access to tools such as a Wedeco, or even a Ecosensor to "sniff" ozone, so they use their noses.The "smell test" for ozone is fine if one is using a 100mg hr unit, but what if a OREC 20kg unit, @ 5.00G/NM3 flowing at 75 slpm is being used?

I understand that you are trying to be helpful, but felt your articles were too technical for many home aquarists. I was trying to explain the concept in plain English.
Once again, I am not trying to start a flame war.

[Witfull]

healthy exchange of ideas and thoughts of technology are welcome....lett the science begin~

[boozeman]

[Witfull]

better be a big bucket,,,



OMG whats that at the bottom of the bucket,,,,Booze~~~~

[boozeman]

[Boomer]

You have a misconception of ozone in seawater. I do not need ozone kinetics explained to me

yes ozone is oxidixing your PVC destruct unit as we speak

Yes, Zone will break down many things, to include some plastics and it will take years to break down PVC. I ran zone for 30 years. There are many ozone safe products. The article has a link with a whole list.


1) I was explaining that the byproduct of ozone is oxygen, and that it is not dangerous

Those byproducts are dangerous. Ozone oxidizes bromide in seconds to hypobromine bleach. We are not dealing with FW, where there is no bromide.

O3 + Br- ==> O2 + OBr-

This is the dominate reaction in ozone kinetics in seawater.

There is very little if any O2 byproduct with ozone in seawater.Your comment is dangerous and misleading.

2) How many seconds is "gone in seconds in seawater"? You are quite misleading on that one. High concentrations of ozone in seawater will kill an animal with one breath.

No I'm not misleading. The half-life of ozone in seawater is on the order of few seconds in the presence of bromide. In most systems this ion will react with organics. As these organics get depleted from ozone and bromine more bromine is left behind with nothing to react with, leaving dangerous levels of bromine.

See; Ozone Kinetics in Seawater by F. A . Steslow, from the NJ State Aquarium.

They use ozone injection in many public aquariums and use degassing towers to remove it or UV. Such public aquariums also use bromide free salt. We are not


3) GAC is a fine absorption media, but does not work as a catalyst in the way products such as Carulite does. It will not efficiently revert ozone back to oxygen.

Where did I say GAC will convert O3 back to O2 ? It is bromine reacting with carbon just like chlorine reacts with GAC in a RO/DI unit. The bromine gets converted back to bromide, leaving in the reaction a byproduct of CO* and Br-. In a RO/DI unit the chlorine gets converted to Cl- with CO*. It is the same chemistry.


Ozone reacts with GAC leaving mostly CO*. It is common place to use GAC or C-GAC to remove ozone vapor. C-GAC was designed for this purpose, mostly applied to chlorine, chloramine and bromine removal from water/wastewater .There are many studies on it.

You can start here
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...carbon&spell=1

4) Most home aquarists go not have access to analyzers such as a Hach Mass Spectrophotometer to get quantitive concentrations of residuals such as bromides. It is much more practical to measure the millivolts of the water to know that nothing is "tragically wrong" Most home aquarists also don't have access to tools such as a Wedeco, or even a Ecosensor to "sniff" ozone, so they use their noses.The "smell test" for ozone is fine if one is using a 100mg hr unit, but what if a OREC 20kg unit, @ 5.00G/NM3 flowing at 75 slpm is being used?

You do not need a HACH unit. There are many companies that make ozone, chlorine and bromine test kits, all which test to very low levels. Some of these kits test to .01 ppm, which is more than low enough for us. Most of these kits use the DPD Method so a chlorine test kit will test positive for ozone or bromine. By manipulating the MW a chlorine kit will measure bromine. All they really change in these kits is the scale.

You do not need a Ecosensor or a Werdco in the home. All you need is GAC at the skimmer air vent. No one is using 20 kg units. So why even bring it up ? Granted a hose may fall off, which is always a concern. One needs to follow certain rules when using ozone to be safe.

I understand that you are trying to be helpful, but felt your articles were too technical for many home aquarists. I was trying to explain the concept in plain English.

That is fine but your plain English has some serious errors and is only why I replied. I'm sorry but I do to think you understood those articles at all.

Those articles were not written by me but Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley, PH.D in chemist from Harvard.

He would be more than glad to come here and defend his articles if there is a need.

Or feel free to come to our chem forum and discuss it there with Randy. There is a link as part of my sig.

[billyr98]

Wow this is like science class....

[Boomer]

3) GAC is a fine absorption media, but does not work as a catalyst in the way products such as Carulite does. It will not efficiently revert ozone back to oxygen

I could not help myself

Carulite, just what we want for the removal ozone or bromine from seawater

Material or Component:

Manganese Dioxide 60-75 %
Copper Oxide 11-14 %
Aluminum Oxide 8-18 %

This is an for AIR only product !!