Hooray for Ontario Liberals!

[Maxx]

Originally posted by jupiter
JUPITER ... MUST ... STAY ... UNDER ... CONTROL

Rather than me debating the issue (because I will not do that again) let just tell you that buying a licence for the soul purpose of killing animals for pleasure is abhorrent. If we want to conserve our bear population (or deer or kangaroo or whatever) this culling should be done strictly by the government. Let them sell the meat, skin, gonads to make their money. Killing wildlife should be akin to working in an abattoir. No one wants to do it but it "has to be done". Slaughterhouse workers don't pay for the right to kill the animals.

Hey Jup,
at the risk of sounding like one huge capitalistic Donald Trump wanna be, your solution to the culling of wildlife populations, while noble and well intentioned, has the disadvantage of costing money to implement. By issuing tags for hunters, the state/province actually gains revenue, and has less to spend on management. I'm not saying that the only concern is financial, cause that aint the case either. But your scenario requireas the government to pay people to go get the animals, and transport them to slaughter houses, as opposed to people who will pay for the priviledge to do all that. I'm sure you could actually look up what the figures are for how much the province recieved in tag costs vs what it cost to issue them. I grew up around firearms, but never got interested in hunting. I can get all my food from the grocery store. But I understand the benefits behind it, (ecological and otherwise), and don't have a problem w/ it as long as its not for trophy purposes. There was a bill before the Missouri legislature a few years back that was based on our version of over population, deer. The deer population in Missouri exploded a few years back, and deer were showing up in subdivisions, all over freeways causing severe accidents, etc. One city, (Town and Country...don't ask why, just accept the fact that its the name of the city), actually trapped the deer, and relocated them elsewhere. The net result? The deer didnt adapt to their new environment and died. One state congressman proposed a deer birth control program, that was to place suppositories in female deer that would prevent pregnancy. The cost to Missouri....400 dollar increase in taxes per person.....it didnt make it very far in legislature.
I agree w/ your sentiment, and certainly believe that the environment needs to be protected, but there needs to be some common sense involved. I'm not saying that your solution doesnt make sense, just that are good reasons that current systems are in place.
Nick

[DICK]

How many people REALLY have to hunt to put food on their table?
That's a lame excuse to get you're thrills by shooting animals in their habitat. If there are potentially dangerous animals in your backyard, that's a different story, but most people that I know make it a vacation activity to go hunting. And bringing back pictures kneeling beside a dead full grown deer is NOT a display of accomplishment or pride!

[BoomerD]

How many people REALLY have to hunt to put food on their table?

I doubt that it's a matter of HAVING to hunt for food, but meat is meat, whether it comes from some cow out to pasture, raised strictly for meat, or a deer, elk or whatever. When I used to humt, there was nothing I liked better than elk. If I could, there would be NO beef on my table, only elk. As I said in my earlier post, as long as you eat what you kill . For those who have a tender spot for the wildlife, I really don't see much difference between eating a steak from the local grocers, and a steak from the wild, except the taste of course. Do you eat fish? Same thing. Eating farm raised trout or salmon is no different than eating fish fresh from the ocean or local stream, lake or river, except again, flavor!
MEAT IS MEAT!!

[DICK]

They are already dead. Why go out and kill another animal?

[BoomerD]

How do you think they get dead? Do you think cowboys raise dead cows? Come on, let's face the facts, meat is dead animals, that used to be live animals. Where's the difference between bossie the cow, and bambi?

[DICK]

Bossie at the market is ALREADY dead, I would have to GO and kill Bambi. And you think that I belive you hunted Elk only because you like the meat? Not because you got a kick out of shooting it?

[mojoreef]

Alright folks let keep the conversation going but lose a little bit of the emotion, Everyone has the right to thier opinion and beliefs. Its all good and it usually ain't going to change

Thanks for working with us

Mike

[BoomerD]

Mojo, Dick & I have already exchanged peace messages. Nuff said.
As I said in my original reply to this post, it's a touchy subject for many people.

[Gina]

I used to be dead (pardon pun) set against hunting. I personally would not do it. I find it hard to kill something. But, I do remember once seeing a documentary about Ted Nugent and in it he said"you have to kill it before you grill it" which made me think gee the meat I get at the grocery was really a live animal once. I have to admit I love steak and other meats. If, you eat what you kill and just don't do it for sport then do it. You have to admit that if we didn't have hunting season alot of animals would probably starve to death eventually. I read once that there are more deer killed each year from being hit by a car that are ever killed by a gun. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[BoomerD]

Thank you Gina.

[Cougra]

Originally posted by Montanareefer
What I got out of all this reading was how many black bears you guys have up there? That really surprised me!

I am with witfull and should have a regulated hunt!

MOnatanareefer:

Here is a bit more information on the number of Blackbears in Canada if you are interested:

Black bears are typically North American animals. Their population is estimated at over 450,000 in Canada alone. Black bears live in almost all kind of habitats, from the dense southern forests to the northern arctic tundra. The average weight of a mature black bear goes anywhere from 200 to 450 pounds, although some trophies weigh over 500 pounds. In the wild, black bears can live up to 15 years. The sow has a very low reproduction cycle, and gives birth to 1 or 2 - sometimes 3 - cubs once every 2 years.

American black bear populations appear to be stable or increasing across most of their North American range. It is estimated black bear population in the United States grew by some 25 to 35 percent during the past 15 years, from roughly 300,000 in 1988 to an estimated 450,000 in the mid-1990s. During the same overall period, Canada's black bear population estimate increased from approx. 380,000 to 450,000. Black bear populations in Mexico remain difficult to assess because of the lack of available data...
...Today upwards of 800,000 black bears inhabit North America with most still found in Alaska and Canada. Huntable numbers abide in about half of the states.

Info found HERE

[mojoreef]

Mojo, Dick & I have already exchanged peace messages. Nuff said.

I knew you guys would, Thanks


Mike

[Montanareefer]

Thanks Cougra on the black bear info. Still amazing how many there really are!

[Craig Manoukian]

That's a lame excuse to get you're thrills by shooting animals in their habitat. ... bringing back pictures kneeling beside a dead full grown deer is NOT a display of accomplishment or pride!

Come on, let's face the facts, meat is dead animals, that used to be live animals. Where's the difference between bossie the cow, and bambi?

Let's play nice as this boarders on an attack or flame chord. You can't paint everyone with the same brush in a sweeping statement. Please, let's keep our emotions in check.

Good points and discussion everyone!



Posted before reading to the bottom and seeing mojoreef already moderated - an additional reminder non the less

[Gina]

I think everyone needs to keep in mind that we all have our own personal views re: life. An easy way for me to post is just to say "personally, I couldn't" But, that's just me. I would not ever tell someone they are wrong or bad because they could. Hunting has been around since the very beginning. It's just now, we have slaughter houses to do our job. I know someone who once told me that he was out hunting and sitting in his tree and the biggest buck he ever saw came walking up. He said that he had never seen one that looked so regal. He counted his points as 12. He let that animal go in hopes that he would populate the area with his genes. He told me alot of hunters will do that. I gained alot of respect for him at that moment. I always thought that was the goal..to get the biggest rack possibly. I don't care for threads that really start getting nasty. Once I see that I will usually leave the thread at that time. We have a right for our own opinion but, shouldn't hurt someone else for theirs.