Malvo Quilty!! - Page 3

NaH2O · 12-20-2003, 11:51 AM

LOL, Scott! You mean all the world's problems don't center around how to get a DSB to continue working and your turf algae?

The only violence I have been exposed to first hand is a peeping tom at our old house, and in High School, a classmate of mine shot himself during class. I'm thankful every day that he didn't open fire on all of us. (I'm not counting fist fights I've seen, as those really didn't harm my psyche).

ReefLady · 12-20-2003, 01:10 PM

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for handling this discussion so well.
It just goes to prove what a great group of people we have here.

ScottT1980 · 12-20-2003, 01:18 PM

One thing you did bring up Maxx that I did not know was the Turkish form of justice. I will have to do some research on their principles as I find it pretty fascinating. Perhaps over those beers huh...

Take er easy
Scott T.

Maxx · 12-20-2003, 01:38 PM

I got a spare lawnmower...its a Honda mulching type...very good....just got a newer one, so I dont use this any more.

Nick

NaH2O · 12-20-2003, 01:39 PM

Nick, are you refering to the turf algae or the Turkish form of justice?

SaltyQueen · 12-20-2003, 01:40 PM

As a mental health nurse, I work in a state facility where Wisconsin's worst criminally insane are housed. Most of them are complete monsters, who will spend the rest of their lives in my facility because they are just incabable of being rehabilitated. I work everyday with rapists, murderers, and child molesters. Yes, I've come to know these people personally, as I'm in one-to-one contact with them every day, but I've also been physically assaulted by some of them during the course of my work. There are no guns allowed in my facility, for safety reasons, but if I were to encounter one of my patients on the street, you can bet I would use whatever means necessary to defend myself or my family. Do I consider it murder when someone kills for self defense? Of course not. Is it murder when soldiers must kill the enemy? Definitely not. I have seen first hand the darkness that can lie in some of these people's minds, and I know for a fact that many of them would rather be dead than deal with their own personal demons. Others take great pride in re-living their crimes in their minds, and sharing the gory details with whomever happens to be within earshot. For anyone to say that to kill one of these people out of self defense is murder is absolutely ridiculous. I would ask those people, put in the same situation, what would you do? Yes, there are non-violent alternatives in SOME situations, but what would you do when faced with a man who is pure evil who has a gun aimed at your head? What non-violent means would you employ with someone who is not rational enough to comprehend or even hear anything you say? Sometimes, there is NO alternative. Sometimes, it's kill or be killed. To say that a police officer who chooses to kill rather than be killed is a murderer is like a slap in the face to them. Soldiers & law enforcement officers put their lives on the line everyday so that the rest of us can live peaceful lives. Lets show them some appreciation, rather than point fingers at them...

Maxx · 12-20-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaH2O
Nick, are you refering to the turf algae or the Turkish form of justice?

Uhhh...I was actually refering to his turf algae problem....I saw Fargo...not mess I particularly want to clean up after......ewwww....

ScottT1980 · 12-20-2003, 01:59 PM

Saltyqueen, I was not trying to make anyone sound like the bad guy and tried to furthur explain the premise behind my definition of "murder." I can certainly understand why anyone would use lethal force in certain situations and if I were in that situation, I too perhaps could take that path (hence my admitting that I struggle with this entire ideology). Nevertheless, that still doesn't mean that I think it is right.

Quote:

To say that a police officer who chooses to kill rather than be killed is a murderer is like a slap in the face to them. Soldiers & law enforcement officers put their lives on the line everyday so that the rest of us can live peaceful lives. Lets show them some appreciation, rather than point fingers at them...

Thats exactly why I didn't want to delve much further into this subject because I did not want to "slap anyone in the face." I appreciate the hell out of what all of our civil servants do for this great nation. While I may disagree with some of the methods being used, that certainly does not mean that I don't admire them or see them as upstanding people.

THere are a lot of things I disagree with that goes on in this country, but that certainly doesn't mean that I am not proud to be an American. That same principle can be used in this circumstance...

Again, I meant absolutly no disrespect but I can't help the way I believe and fell, does that make sense?

Take er easy
Scott T.

Craig Manoukian · 12-20-2003, 02:34 PM

Thanks again for everyone's sensibility and respect!

mredman · 12-20-2003, 02:44 PM

Man has dwelled on how to deal with violence for centuries. We have sentenced people to death, imprisoned offenders and even banished them to other parts of the planet (i.e. Australia, Guiana).

Living in the US and having the opportunity to travel extensively, I am frequently told by people who live in other parts of the world that Americans are the most violent people in the world (most of us think otherwise). We have the most violent crime and the weakest criminal system on the planet.

You can visit China for example (a country that we disagree with human rights issues) and see that serious crime hardly exists despite substantial poverty.

I believe that the difference is how the offenders are held accountable. For example, in Asian countries, the penalties are severe and the families of offenders are often held in disgrace (do you know where your brother is tonight?).

Our justice system does not work for violent offenders. Jails are overcrowded and I just don't see that the serious offenders can be rehabilitated. These people see themselves as the victim and almost always have NO compassion for their victims.

How much of your earnings would you like to pay to keep serious criminals in jail?

12-20-2003, 11:51 AM	#31 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,928 View Gallery Karma Komment	LOL, Scott! You mean all the world's problems don't center around how to get a DSB to continue working and your turf algae? The only violence I have been exposed to first hand is a peeping tom at our old house, and in High School, a classmate of mine shot himself during class. I'm thankful every day that he didn't open fire on all of us. (I'm not counting fist fights I've seen, as those really didn't harm my psyche). __________________ ~Nikki~

12-20-2003, 01:10 PM	#32 (permalink)
ReefLady Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 2,029 View Gallery Karma Komment	I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for handling this discussion so well. It just goes to prove what a great group of people we have here. __________________ ~ Teri -------- "You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice."

12-20-2003, 01:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,484 View Gallery Karma Komment	One thing you did bring up Maxx that I did not know was the Turkish form of justice. I will have to do some research on their principles as I find it pretty fascinating. Perhaps over those beers huh... Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

12-20-2003, 01:38 PM	#34 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	I got a spare lawnmower...its a Honda mulching type...very good....just got a newer one, so I dont use this any more. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

12-20-2003, 01:39 PM	#35 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,928 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nick, are you refering to the turf algae or the Turkish form of justice? __________________ ~Nikki~

12-20-2003, 01:40 PM	#36 (permalink)
SaltyQueen Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 400 View Gallery Karma Komment	As a mental health nurse, I work in a state facility where Wisconsin's worst criminally insane are housed. Most of them are complete monsters, who will spend the rest of their lives in my facility because they are just incabable of being rehabilitated. I work everyday with rapists, murderers, and child molesters. Yes, I've come to know these people personally, as I'm in one-to-one contact with them every day, but I've also been physically assaulted by some of them during the course of my work. There are no guns allowed in my facility, for safety reasons, but if I were to encounter one of my patients on the street, you can bet I would use whatever means necessary to defend myself or my family. Do I consider it murder when someone kills for self defense? Of course not. Is it murder when soldiers must kill the enemy? Definitely not. I have seen first hand the darkness that can lie in some of these people's minds, and I know for a fact that many of them would rather be dead than deal with their own personal demons. Others take great pride in re-living their crimes in their minds, and sharing the gory details with whomever happens to be within earshot. For anyone to say that to kill one of these people out of self defense is murder is absolutely ridiculous. I would ask those people, put in the same situation, what would you do? Yes, there are non-violent alternatives in SOME situations, but what would you do when faced with a man who is pure evil who has a gun aimed at your head? What non-violent means would you employ with someone who is not rational enough to comprehend or even hear anything you say? Sometimes, there is NO alternative. Sometimes, it's kill or be killed. To say that a police officer who chooses to kill rather than be killed is a murderer is like a slap in the face to them. Soldiers & law enforcement officers put their lives on the line everyday so that the rest of us can live peaceful lives. Lets show them some appreciation, rather than point fingers at them...

12-20-2003, 02:34 PM	#39 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 18,036 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Thanks again for everyone's sensibility and respect! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-20-2003, 02:44 PM	#40 (permalink)
mredman Limpet Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 149 View Gallery Karma Komment	Man has dwelled on how to deal with violence for centuries. We have sentenced people to death, imprisoned offenders and even banished them to other parts of the planet (i.e. Australia, Guiana). Living in the US and having the opportunity to travel extensively, I am frequently told by people who live in other parts of the world that Americans are the most violent people in the world (most of us think otherwise). We have the most violent crime and the weakest criminal system on the planet. You can visit China for example (a country that we disagree with human rights issues) and see that serious crime hardly exists despite substantial poverty. I believe that the difference is how the offenders are held accountable. For example, in Asian countries, the penalties are severe and the families of offenders are often held in disgrace (do you know where your brother is tonight?). Our justice system does not work for violent offenders. Jails are overcrowded and I just don't see that the serious offenders can be rehabilitated. These people see themselves as the victim and almost always have NO compassion for their victims. How much of your earnings would you like to pay to keep serious criminals in jail?

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