Grain Alcohol?

[Jerome]

My friend came by the other nightand he has a reef. He told me that he was using a new "technique" that sounded a bit strange to me (and unsafe). He said that he was running short lighting cycle 4 hours a day and dosing "vodka" aka grain alcohol and amino acids. I looked on the web for information and all I found was an article by Eric Borneman in which he sounds highly skeptical of the beneficial effects of dosing grain alcohol to bloom bacteria. I was wondering if anyone knows what this system of keeping is called. It has a name to like the "bla-bla method" I just couldn't remember what he called it when he was over.

[Witfull]

what a waste of good (heck, even bad) vodka.

[Gina]

Sandbeds and Vodka

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but, it's all I could find for now regarding Alcohol and Tanks.

[Woodstock]

There are many ban wagons out there.. be careful which ones ya jump on~~

[mps9506]

IMO if you have to dose stuff to kick start bacteria populations in the tank, then something else in the tank is out of whack.
If there is enough live rock and sufficent substrate or filter media for bacteria to colonize, then there is no need to additional bacteria to consume nutrients. Plus I haven't seen any documented data on long term effects of adding small amounts of grain alcohol on tank inhabitants. Although not much, I still wonder what the additional affects are.
Plus, i agree with wit. Don't waste alcohol.

[Witfull]

drink a shot, clean your tank, have another, watch the tank...everyone happy~~

[ldrhawke]

I have had good success in reducing nitrates and phosphate by dosing Vodka over last year.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Woodstock

There are many ban wagons out there.. be careful which ones ya jump on~~

I would agree with you there, Woodstock

Anne

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

I have had good success in reducing nitrates and phosphate by dosing Vodka over last year.

OK, I may be opening a can of worms here, but I have to admit that curiosity has me. Can you please explain your method? Do you have the data to back up the claim? Please know that I am not being critical, just honestly curious and if it is something that works it might help others out.

Anne

[Tarasco]

Personally, I like to drink my booze. I wonder if the fish get a little bit of a buzz from adding vodka?

[ldrhawke]

I'm leaving the office and i'll respond with more detail later.

Reef keepers objecting to using alcohol as a clean carbon source in reef keeping is like a Southern Baptist objecting to a doctor cleaning a wound with an alcohol swab.

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

I'm leaving the office and i'll respond with more detail later.

Reef keepers objecting to using alcohol as a clean carbon source in reef keeping is like a Southern Baptist objecting to a doctor cleaning a wound with an alcohol swab.

I had no problems reducing phosphates once I got rid of the large phosphate and nutrient sink in my tank (DSB).
There is no dount that doseing alcohol or sugar can reduce nutrients in the aquarium. However why dose something when the tank can be setup to reduce phosphate and elimanate nitrates in the first place?

[Sharkbait]

I've heard of this a couple of times now.The results is almost always the same, the doser becomes the dosee.Next thing you know you and your tank have to go to "meetings". Seriously though, I've seen it performed, but it always seems to be cut off too early to make an opinion on its long term safety in reef environments.

Make mine a double, it's for me not the tank!

[cheeks69]

The results weren't all that nice in Lab and later on in the aquarias !

I do know arround 30 aquarists in europe that lost some big quantity of their stony corals... mostly due to
bacterial infections.

The ethanol boosts the growth of almost any bacteria in the tank, some people even reported some withe slimy film
on the aquaria glass. In some tanks the coral died because of "starvation", since PO4 and/or NO3 went down to zero in no time.
Some other ones dies because of the mysterious PO4 increase.

I did a some test in my Lab here in switzerland over period of about 2 month. I did these with some enriched bacteria cultures of my
tanks sediments. When the PO4/NO3 ration was around 1/16, there was a good decrease of PO4 and NO3. If not so, the one or the other
element was the limiting factor stopping or slowing the bacterial bloom. As soon as these happened, the PO4 went up. The answer to that
is, that the dying bacteria where releasing the Phosphorus they previously got out of the PO4.
In a normal tank the skimmer should eliminate most of the biomass resulting from the bacterial bloom. But if the skimmer is
to slow or the biomass to big, then the tank would suffer a massive PO4 peak.
In one tank I was able to measure these, the PO4 went up to 2mg in 18 houres ! If we wouldn't have been monitoring these tank
so closely, then these would have been the end of another aquarium... but we where able to bring enough PO4 Adsorber in to the System
to remove it just in time...


Some other experiments in these area where about the bacterial diversity. The diversity decreased in all cultures and aquarias after
a short while, when feeding it whit ethanol or vodka. In some closed cultures I ended up with just one bacterial strain left in the culture within a week.

Since then I used ethanol only for "jump starting" new systems, so I could get very fast a good bacterial density in a fresh tank.

I believe that ethanol is very dangerous, since its unpredictable what the bacteria growth will be in a certain tank. Ethanol will boost almost
any bacterial, even some marine pathogens. Depending on the conditions, those bacterias might take over the system.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...a&pagenumber=5

I would be very hesitant with these results.

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally Posted by mps9506

I had no problems reducing phosphates once I got rid of the large phosphate and nutrient sink in my tank (DSB).

A DSB does not have to be the nutrient sink that everyone alludes to. I recently took down my 80 gallon display tank, a donation to the Wooster HS Science department, after 3 years of it being in operation.

There was absolutely no acrid smell to the tank as we cleaned out the sand. Roger, the Wooster HS Science teacher, Rougiem here on RS, commented that the sand smelled like the beach at the ocean.

I give most of the credit to my cleaning crew. Nassaurious Snails, Fighting Conch, Polycheates, and Scarlet Hermits continually cleaned and stirred my 4" DSB. My refugium with Cheatomorpha, 15 to 20 times water turnover, and a skimmer also get some credit. I did not do regular water changes to export nitrates/phosphates, maybe 3 or 4 times a year and a topped off with regular water.

I employ the same methodology in my 20 gallon long and niether tank had anything more than a little algea buildup on the glass which need to be cleaned every couple of weeks

Sofari so goodi!