Inclinations of a no-filter media system.

[BigAl07]

Did anyone else have a "Bio-globe" ?

[EagleEyes]

Thanks BigAl!!

It would not be similar in practice because there is air exchange and some other different factors.
First Ill point out that when BigAl says "Bio Ball" he means a completely enclosed environment like they have at Biosphere two with shrimp or the smallest fish in the world and NOT the filter media. lol
But that is a really good point, because the answer to your question is yes the theory is the same. I placed different organisms into my aquarium and let it cycle. I decided that it would be too much trouble to make sure that my parameters were correct and that levels were safe etc. so i am simply adding things slowly so that the aquarium can adjust itself.
You're quote is dead on too: let the tank develop. I am studying to be a biologist so the intermediate stages are the most interesting. I think thats how i can wait soo long for the tank to mature.
And obviously the bio globes are carefully prepared so that the process isnt as long and taxing, but i dont know enough about SW tank metabolism to make the calculations.

[prow]

hummm, did not read this whole thing but i have a tank that has been going for about 6+ years, with nothing but sand and rock and two powerheads. no water changes for past year or two and no adding abything but RO/DI topoff water. water is perfect and everything is thriving so yep it can be done with all natural.

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by prow

hummm, did not read this whole thing but i have a tank that has been going for about 6+ years, with nothing but sand and rock and two powerheads. no water changes for past year or two and no adding abything but RO/DI topoff water. water is perfect and everything is thriving so yep it can be done with all natural.

You say everything is thriving, what is ? Do you have any corraline algae ?

[prow]

yup more than any of my other tanks. ijust took these pic. not a good one but you can see how thick the coraline is on the rock.

[cheeks69]

How is the corraline growing without any calcium/alkalinity/strontium and other elements being replaced ? Are you dripping kalk ?

[prow]

good question. nope no kalk. i am guessing down in the rock and sand the aragontie is getting broke down. the rock is probably hallow, at least very porous .

[cheeks69]

Well the ph would have to be quite low and from what Boomer mentioned if it does get that low the SB will actually harden/clump.

[prow]

yeah thats right. but i dont think the sand is what is getting dissolved. the ph in the tank stays at around 8.0. it does not vary much at all. maybe 0.01-0.02. but zones within the rock i would expect go <7.7( the point where aragonite starts to dissolve.) the sand is still loose no clumps. there is only 1.5-2" of sand, even though the ph may go under 7.7 towards the bottom the sand, the level has remained the same. for as long as the tank has been going with out water changes or supplements the sand should be either solid or dissolved into noting by now. i think deep down within the rock is where most of the dissolving is going on. its they only thing that make any sence to me. there maybe other reasons or mechanisms i am not familiar with. aside from the coralline growing its the stable ph that gets me. 8.0 solid day or night that just amazing.

[EagleEyes]

Hey i dont pretend to know anything about chemistry, but there is more than one way to make clacium, whether its calcium bicarbonate, calcium hydroxide, calcium chloride, etc. But if you have diatoms in the tank, which would be wierd, they might hold the key to your undoubtedly odd case. Also, you might have a system with organisms that form a chain, processing the calcium until it can be reused. i.e. Coral eating fish -> diatoms coral/calcareous algae -> coral eating fish. (im sure there would be something in the middle but im not THAT knowledgable, although i have been searching..

[EagleEyes]

Oh and also, the algae you have is not the same type that "glues" reefs together. It might be reusing small bits of calcium. So heres a good question:

Does the calcareous algae grow in cycles? or is there some other cycle that might show that there is a buffer period where calcium recycling could take place?

[prow]

:smck: i did not even think of that. i think you hit it right on the head. it does not really grow in cycles. it does come and go a little on the glass, not the rock though. to some extent i think your right its self containing. some buffering from the sand and rock keeping things stable. i also have a branching coralline-Haliptilon roseum in there. to be honest i dont really pay much attention to the tank. but i know that branching coralline used to grow pretty fast but sense i let the tank go it stays the same size. i have a few mushrooms and polyps in there too. the mushes grow but only split like once a year maybe. the polyps stay the same too, not spreading over everything. good call...karma too ya......

[EagleEyes]

Thanks Prow, like your Reefspace! Im gonna get one myself! Also, i thought of an even simpler and possibly better explaination. What happens when you have an algae that doesn't necessarily NEED calcium to live finds it self in short supply? It lives, but adds calcium little by little. You should be lucky that it doesnt have very many predators in your tank! So the idea is, not recycling but using less because there is less. Plus it would accommodate the hypothesis that the calcium is getting broken down very slowly, probably by water motion, or in areas under the sand where the (isolated) areas have a higher pH or something. Good topic!!

[Craig Manoukian]

Very interesting exchange eveyone!

[prow]

Originally Posted by Craig Manoukian

Very interesting exchange eveyone!

aahhh the things that make you go ..............:meeting:......... ............:meeting:......... .......................... .......:meeting:....... ......................... ..........

eagle eyes thanks, like my tank its a work in progress. did you see my discriptions of the fish when you click on the view pic? then click on the pic, the part that shows the map of where they come from. i only have discriptions of the fish have not done the coral yet still havent loaded all of them. just courious on what others think of the discriptions. keep in mind i am discriping that particular fish.

here a link i think. http://www.reefspace.net/photo/photo...t=highestRated just click the fish pic's.