Phosphate or nitrogen

mojoreef · 12-14-2003, 04:18 PM

I was just wondering what you folks feel is the one to most scariest to you, and which one do you feel is the most limiting to life.

I will do it in a poll but feel free to post your thoughts.
MIke

Travis · 12-14-2003, 05:58 PM

Ahh, deep question. Through a slight haze of ignorance, my own experience has shown me that where there is a REAL algae problem, there is phosphate.

Seems you can have low levels of nitrates without problems, not true with phosphates IME.

jks1 · 12-14-2003, 06:59 PM

agreed on the algae/phosphate thing. i havent had more than .5 nitrates in quite a while, but from my FO days it is ingrained to keep an eye on them. Knock on wood, i havent had any algae problems in the last few months after the initial outbreaks when i set up my tank. (man i probably shouldnt have said that)

Spooda420 · 12-14-2003, 07:15 PM

Nitrogen is one of the building blocks to life

mojoreef · 12-14-2003, 08:46 PM

Spooda love your avatar

.

Spooda420 · 12-14-2003, 09:06 PM

Thanks! ....must admit its stolen.

Cosmic · 12-16-2003, 05:41 PM

Nitrogen is by far the limiting factor to life, but in my reef-tank, I have more than enough methods for excess nitrogen removal, whereas it's Phosphates that are my enemy!

eweldon · 12-18-2003, 10:19 AM

Loaded question: Depending upon the form the Nitrogen or Phosphorus presents itself either element could be a biocide or a nutrient. Phosphorus is the most difficult to export and is difficult to eliminate on the import side of the reef equation.

Happy Holidays!

E

Pro_builder · 12-18-2003, 10:34 AM

I'm not worrried about the Nitrogen exporting in my tank. That is what I have the DSB and LR for. As for the Phosphates, well you are always adding them, (Fish Food) if they start to get out of control there are very few ways to get them down succefully, that I know of.
Just my 2 cents.

Craig Manoukian · 12-18-2003, 01:17 PM

So will caulerpa uptake/export both nitrates and phosphates?

mojoreef · 12-18-2003, 02:21 PM

yep, but not very effectively.

MIke

Craig Manoukian · 12-18-2003, 11:12 PM

Which are removed most effectively, nitrates or phosphates? Thanks Mike!

mojoreef · 12-18-2003, 11:53 PM

Criag Algae will absorb either, it would just depend on which one was more available at any given time. As per effectiveness they are both the same. The only reason I say no effective is that the cellstructure of algae are weak, so at the same time they absorb to disabsorb. Thier is still a net gain however.

MIke

Craig Manoukian · 12-19-2003, 12:39 AM

Thanks bud, just gettin' my refugium up and running this weekend. Two kinds of Macro Algae; Chaetomorpha, and Feather Caulerpa!

dgasmd · 12-20-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojoreef
Criag Algae will absorb either, it would just depend on which one was more available at any given time. As per effectiveness they are both the same. The only reason I say no effective is that the cellstructure of algae are weak, so at the same time they absorb to disabsorb. Thier is still a net gain however.

MIke

Mike:
Actually, like any other cell, algae "use" nitogen and phophates for 2 different processes. Nitrogen is more for building structures like proteins and the amino acids that compose DNA and RNA. That is the building block for all cells. Phophates get used more on the energy consumption aspect of cell living. It is used to form GTP and ATP, both of which are the "money" used for energy use. They fuel processes like building RNA and DNA as well as controlling some of the energy dependent channels in cell walls.
All that is to say that algae will use both, but unlike animal cells, they also derive a lot of their energy from photosynthesis. That is what makes them less efficient at consuming and exporting the above mentioned evils (nitrogen and phophates).
I personally had concluded that the best way for me to export these 2 is by water changes and by using chemicals designed to bind them. Phosban is good for that, but according to some other sources, rowaphos is at least 30% better at it. Which is more cost effective is another story. Here is my case for example.

Rowaphos
Gallons to treat: 600g
Media voume needed: 1.5L
Cost to treat: $106

Phosban
Gallos to treat: 600g
Media volume needed: 600 grams
Cost to treat: $42

Sorry for going off in a tangent.

Alberto

View Poll Results: which is of the most concern in keeping a reef
Controling elements of the nitrogen is my foremost concern	13	34.21%
elements of phosphates are my foremost concern	15	39.47%
nitrogen is the limiting factor in life	3	7.89%
phosphate is the limiting factor in life	7	18.42%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

12-14-2003, 04:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Phosphate or nitrogen I was just wondering what you folks feel is the one to most scariest to you, and which one do you feel is the most limiting to life. I will do it in a poll but feel free to post your thoughts. MIke __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-14-2003, 05:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,330 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Ahh, deep question. Through a slight haze of ignorance, my own experience has shown me that where there is a REAL algae problem, there is phosphate. Seems you can have low levels of nitrates without problems, not true with phosphates IME. __________________ Help build the Encyclopedia of ReefKeeping Find over 1400 Reef Aquarium Articles at The Reef Aquarium Index

12-14-2003, 06:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
jks1 Achilles Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 876 View Gallery Karma Komment	agreed on the algae/phosphate thing. i havent had more than .5 nitrates in quite a while, but from my FO days it is ingrained to keep an eye on them. Knock on wood, i havent had any algae problems in the last few months after the initial outbreaks when i set up my tank. (man i probably shouldnt have said that) __________________ John Tank: 29g glass Pumps: Mag5.0 return - (3) rio 100 PHs Lighting: (1) 150w XM 10K/(2) 30W actinics Equipment: Aqua C Urchin skimmer- CPR Fuge, Titanium Heater -Red Sea wavemaster Pro Tank: 210g 1/2" Acrylic, dual overflows, 75g glass sump w/ 20g fuge. Pumps: Mag24 return - (2) MAG24s running 2 closed loop systems. Lighting: (3) 400w XM 10K/(2) Custom Sealife 96w PC - 25w dimmable incandescent Moonlight Equipment: Aqua C EV180 skimmer - CR500 calc reactor - Titanium Heater - AquaLogic single Stage Temp Controller - Aquanetics 1/5Hp Chiller - Neptune sys aquacontroller

12-14-2003, 07:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
Spooda420 Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 483 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nitrogen is one of the building blocks to life __________________ 120 gallon, 100 gallon sump, GEO Calcium Reactor, Aqua C EV-400 Skimmer, 300 pounds of LR, Bare Bottom, 2 Tetra UV2 Sterilizers, 2 Tunze 6080 streams, 2 - 400 watt DE Metal Halides

12-14-2003, 08:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Spooda love your avatar . __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-14-2003, 09:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Spooda420 Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 483 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks! ....must admit its stolen. __________________ 120 gallon, 100 gallon sump, GEO Calcium Reactor, Aqua C EV-400 Skimmer, 300 pounds of LR, Bare Bottom, 2 Tetra UV2 Sterilizers, 2 Tunze 6080 streams, 2 - 400 watt DE Metal Halides

12-16-2003, 05:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cosmic Star Polyps Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 173 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nitrogen is by far the limiting factor to life, but in my reef-tank, I have more than enough methods for excess nitrogen removal, whereas it's Phosphates that are my enemy! __________________ ReefKeeping FAQ'S

12-18-2003, 10:19 AM	#8 (permalink)
eweldon Tunicate Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 7 View Gallery Karma Komment	Loaded question: Depending upon the form the Nitrogen or Phosphorus presents itself either element could be a biocide or a nutrient. Phosphorus is the most difficult to export and is difficult to eliminate on the import side of the reef equation. Happy Holidays! E

12-18-2003, 10:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
Pro_builder DIY Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Oxford, Iowa Posts: 1,746 View Gallery Karma Komment	I'm not worrried about the Nitrogen exporting in my tank. That is what I have the DSB and LR for. As for the Phosphates, well you are always adding them, (Fish Food) if they start to get out of control there are very few ways to get them down succefully, that I know of. Just my 2 cents. __________________ -Troy 180 gallon Reef, 3- 250 XM 15K MH Electronic ballast, 380 watts VHO Actinics, 2- 5 watt LED Moon lights, 100 gal rubbermaid sump, 75 gallon Fuge, ETSS 600 Skimmer, 4700-5400 gph pump for return, Octopus 3000 controller, Iwaki 40 RL skimmer pump, 2- 65w PC 10K fuge lights, 2 55 gallon barrels, Custom light oak stand and hood, misc pumps, extra 600 gallon rated tank size protein skimmer. Purple tang, yellow tang, pacific blue tang, 2 green chromis, 1 Sand sifting star, snails, hermit crabs, 2 mated perculas, pulsing Xenia, Anenome, mushrooms, ricordia, zoanthids, kenya tree 1 1/2" tall, misc other hitchhiker stuff. DIY is my dream... ...well OK the only way I can afford this Addiction!! Just as the light goes on in my head... ... I break the bulb!!

12-18-2003, 01:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,735 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	So will caulerpa uptake/export both nitrates and phosphates? __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-18-2003, 02:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	yep, but not very effectively. MIke __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-18-2003, 11:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,735 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Which are removed most effectively, nitrates or phosphates? Thanks Mike! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-18-2003, 11:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Criag Algae will absorb either, it would just depend on which one was more available at any given time. As per effectiveness they are both the same. The only reason I say no effective is that the cellstructure of algae are weak, so at the same time they absorb to disabsorb. Thier is still a net gain however. MIke __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-19-2003, 12:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 15,735 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Thanks bud, just gettin' my refugium up and running this weekend. Two kinds of Macro Algae; Chaetomorpha, and Feather Caulerpa! __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

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