Jaubert Plenum - Page 12

NaH2O · 12-17-2003, 01:26 AM

Nick, it may be outside your area of knowledge, but you sure are great against a rabid fighting squirrel!!

RogueCorps · 12-17-2003, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojoreef
Maxx Robs tank had 2 fish and some soft corals and was run by a marine biologist, I dont know if one could say that is the average system.

Hey... I thought we were having a discussion here. No need to sling assumptions like that. This looks like a pretty full tank to me, with 5 fish showing and who knows what else is in the rockwork.

Actually it was run by a teenager, not a marine biologist. If there are so few tanks as old as this there's really no reason to discredit it out of the equation. Without each tank crash analyzed there really is no way of saying what caused it. It could just as easily be blamed on chemical additives or even a fish food brand. There are too many variables and just hobbyist example, not repeated scientific evidence. Not to say who is right or who is wrong, just that a tank that did survive as long as that should be questioned for reasons that it did. He's also spent quite a bit of time posting on RAG with posts that are pages long so I find it hard that his describing his old reef is excused as atypical.

My 20 gallon has been running continuously for almost 14 years now; 12 years bare bottom and 2 years DSB. It's still alive and kicking. Does that merit questioning why it still supports life?

Anyways... just had to get that off of my chest. Time to rest the brain...

-R

Maxx · 12-17-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NaH2O
Nick, it may be outside your area of knowledge, but you sure are great against a rabid fighting squirrel!!

Well at least I've got that going for me! LOL...Thanks Nikki...

Quote:

Hey... I thought we were having a discussion here. No need to sling assumptions like that.

RC...will you please quit trying to have a rational disscusion! We're having.....uh....a discussion here....
nobody meant any bashing here. The fact of the matter is that very few people have had a marine tank running for more than 10 years period...DSB or not. I'm pretty sure that was Mike's point.
Then again I could be wrong, and he could hate DSB's so much, (and you for arguing for them), that he's secretely making voodoo dolls to torture as punishment for spreading sedition here in the alternative to DSB's thread....

It could happen....
Nick

Scooterman · 12-17-2003, 09:28 AM

RC..If you read what he wrote about it, he broke it down and also moved it mid ways, & his never came clean on exactly what he was doing and the specific's of how it was set up and maintained. That discussion was posted elsewhere, we are talking a totally different subject.

Mike, I don't quite understand why not have a PH continuously sucking water from the bottom of the plenum via the submerged tube above the surface area, like in a UGF. This would force the loose particles downward into the substrate. The problem I see with this is a quicker build-up regardless of sand size, it clumps with those large pebbles in the FW tank, I see no reason why it wouldn't in SW.
MAXX..I know nothing in the biochemical pathways area, this is my weak point, so I spend more time reading but make a few goofy comments just to let everyone know I'm still here LOL!

mojoreef · 12-17-2003, 10:26 AM

RC I am ot slinging anything my friend and we are having a discussion. You made a statement that maybe its was best to not think so much about it and just go with a substraight of some kind and nature would take care of it somehow. Then you through out Robs Tank. I have nothing against Robs tank, and it is truely a sucess story if it is truely what he says it is. I look at his tank and I see a breed of corals that are very nutrient tolerant (actully enjoy nutrients). I this tank are a few fish, do I believe these fish are 12 or 14 years old ...nope to small and not developed enough. But it really doesnt matter in what we are trying to do here, this is not a debate its a discussion on trying to break down the biochemical nature of the filtration system of a bunch of forms.
Always in this hobby thier are scenerios like this in the hobby where we get into what is best and so on, and then give an example of someones tank and say look at this. My friend I can show you pictures of BB tanks that are 25 years old, berliners that are 15 to 20 and even undergravel systems that have been set up since 1974.
I will say it again, if you understand how the bioloical pathways work it really doesnt matter, you can figure out how to manipulate a system to work for you, no matter what it is. Robs tank is a tank the is biologically set up to keep the kind of corals that he keeps in them, for me I would suggest that anyone that wishes to only keep the kinds of corals e has to give his filtration system a good look at because it might be the best route to go. For me personally 95% of what I want to keep I feel would not survive very long in that kind of set up.
RC if you would like to dscuss/debate the DSB system I would have no problem accomadating you, but lets do it in another post so we can keep the integrity of this one going. Also if you wish to see studies on long term DSB systems and the cons of them, I have dozens of them would have no problem sharing them with you.

take care

mike

mojoreef · 12-17-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Mike, I don't quite understand why not have a PH continuously sucking water from the bottom of the plenum via the submerged tube above the surface area, like in a UGF. This would force the loose particles downward into the substrate. The problem I see with this is a quicker build-up regardless of sand size, it clumps with those large pebbles in the FW tank, I see no reason why it wouldn't in SW.

Scott the only problem is that we must maintain the integrity of the water parameters of the plenum zone. The plenum zone water must remain very low in oxygen content in order to perform any kind of denitrification. If this was not the case man it would be so easy.

Mike

Scooterman · 12-17-2003, 10:40 AM

Ok, after rereading, and then just trying to stay up with this post, I realized yea, we wanted to keep as little oxygen as we can & running a PH would never allow for that.

ScottT1980 · 12-17-2003, 10:43 AM

Ok, so as for the proposed valve, would that introduce oxygen or would the water be forced downward, therefore not allowing oxygen to move against the force of the water into the plenum area? I really think the valve/drain idea will work really well as long as as little oxygen as possible is kept out of the plenum. Man, I want to try it...

Take er easy
Scott T.

Scooterman · 12-17-2003, 10:45 AM

Man, It would be easy to drill a cheap 10g tanks and set it up but I made a promise I'm having a hard time keeping LOL!

ScottT1980 · 12-17-2003, 11:16 AM

If I had more time and more $$$, I would certainly do it with this 30 gallon temporary fuge (when I get my acrylic one made). I just don't have the time to do the science (i.e. testing everyday with very reliable test kits or perhaps even doing assays) needed for an accurate assessment of its efficacy.

It certainly would be fun to try though...

Take er easy
Scott T.

NaH2O · 12-17-2003, 12:05 PM

Mike, do you think we could also start a DSB thread....that way we can debate pros and cons of the DSB, while we are all trying to get a hold of the biochemical pathways on this thread? Just a thought. I'm very interested in what Rod has to say, but don't want it to take over the plenum thread.

mojoreef · 12-17-2003, 12:58 PM

NIkki I am going blind here trying to put a biochemical pathway model together. If you wouldnt mind go ahead and start a new thread and ask what you want from me, no problem. I am a lousy multitasker, lol

MIke

NaH2O · 12-17-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojoreef
NIkki I am going blind here trying to put a biochemical pathway model together. If you wouldnt mind go ahead and start a new thread and ask what you want from me, no problem. I am a lousy multitasker, lol

MIke

LOL, Mike....I'll start one up....try not to strain too hard with the biochemistry, I wouldn't want you to get hurt!

RogueCorps · 12-18-2003, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojoreef
RC if you would like to dscuss/debate the DSB system I would have no problem accomadating you, but lets do it in another post so we can keep the integrity of this one going.
take care

mike

Oh man... I made quite a discovery tonight Mike. It doesn't have to do with Plenums however so I'll post it here:
DSB...Let's Discuss!

-Rogue

mojoreef · 12-18-2003, 01:14 PM

nice pic RC

Mike

12-17-2003, 01:26 AM	#166 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,928 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nick, it may be outside your area of knowledge, but you sure are great against a rabid fighting squirrel!! __________________ ~Nikki~

12-17-2003, 09:28 AM	#169 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	RC..If you read what he wrote about it, he broke it down and also moved it mid ways, & his never came clean on exactly what he was doing and the specific's of how it was set up and maintained. That discussion was posted elsewhere, we are talking a totally different subject. Mike, I don't quite understand why not have a PH continuously sucking water from the bottom of the plenum via the submerged tube above the surface area, like in a UGF. This would force the loose particles downward into the substrate. The problem I see with this is a quicker build-up regardless of sand size, it clumps with those large pebbles in the FW tank, I see no reason why it wouldn't in SW. MAXX..I know nothing in the biochemical pathways area, this is my weak point, so I spend more time reading but make a few goofy comments just to let everyone know I'm still here LOL! __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

12-17-2003, 10:26 AM	#170 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	RC I am ot slinging anything my friend and we are having a discussion. You made a statement that maybe its was best to not think so much about it and just go with a substraight of some kind and nature would take care of it somehow. Then you through out Robs Tank. I have nothing against Robs tank, and it is truely a sucess story if it is truely what he says it is. I look at his tank and I see a breed of corals that are very nutrient tolerant (actully enjoy nutrients). I this tank are a few fish, do I believe these fish are 12 or 14 years old ...nope to small and not developed enough. But it really doesnt matter in what we are trying to do here, this is not a debate its a discussion on trying to break down the biochemical nature of the filtration system of a bunch of forms. Always in this hobby thier are scenerios like this in the hobby where we get into what is best and so on, and then give an example of someones tank and say look at this. My friend I can show you pictures of BB tanks that are 25 years old, berliners that are 15 to 20 and even undergravel systems that have been set up since 1974. I will say it again, if you understand how the bioloical pathways work it really doesnt matter, you can figure out how to manipulate a system to work for you, no matter what it is. Robs tank is a tank the is biologically set up to keep the kind of corals that he keeps in them, for me I would suggest that anyone that wishes to only keep the kinds of corals e has to give his filtration system a good look at because it might be the best route to go. For me personally 95% of what I want to keep I feel would not survive very long in that kind of set up. RC if you would like to dscuss/debate the DSB system I would have no problem accomadating you, but lets do it in another post so we can keep the integrity of this one going. Also if you wish to see studies on long term DSB systems and the cons of them, I have dozens of them would have no problem sharing them with you. take care mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-17-2003, 10:40 AM	#172 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	Ok, after rereading, and then just trying to stay up with this post, I realized yea, we wanted to keep as little oxygen as we can & running a PH would never allow for that. __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

12-17-2003, 10:43 AM	#173 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,484 View Gallery Karma Komment	Ok, so as for the proposed valve, would that introduce oxygen or would the water be forced downward, therefore not allowing oxygen to move against the force of the water into the plenum area? I really think the valve/drain idea will work really well as long as as little oxygen as possible is kept out of the plenum. Man, I want to try it... Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

12-17-2003, 10:45 AM	#174 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	Man, It would be easy to drill a cheap 10g tanks and set it up but I made a promise I'm having a hard time keeping LOL! __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

12-17-2003, 11:16 AM	#175 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,484 View Gallery Karma Komment	If I had more time and more $$$, I would certainly do it with this 30 gallon temporary fuge (when I get my acrylic one made). I just don't have the time to do the science (i.e. testing everyday with very reliable test kits or perhaps even doing assays) needed for an accurate assessment of its efficacy. It certainly would be fun to try though... Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

12-17-2003, 12:05 PM	#176 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,928 View Gallery Karma Komment	Mike, do you think we could also start a DSB thread....that way we can debate pros and cons of the DSB, while we are all trying to get a hold of the biochemical pathways on this thread? Just a thought. I'm very interested in what Rod has to say, but don't want it to take over the plenum thread. __________________ ~Nikki~

12-17-2003, 12:58 PM	#177 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	NIkki I am going blind here trying to put a biochemical pathway model together. If you wouldnt mind go ahead and start a new thread and ask what you want from me, no problem. I am a lousy multitasker, lol MIke __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

12-18-2003, 01:14 PM	#180 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	nice pic RC Mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)