Summaryof filtration systems

[NaH2O]

me =

[Maxx]

Scooterman,
you suck.
Nick

[Dennis7]

Like Curtswearing stated what we are doing in 2003 might not be in 2005. We are always learning a great deal.
My question is once a DSB gets saturated with phosphates can it be renewed without removing it? Can you use something like a phosphate sponge to renew it?

[dgasmd]

I doubt, but the real answer is NO. The reason I say I doubt it is because the huge amounts of phosphates accumulated over months and years in addition to the ones you are continiously adding daily would much more than what you could efficiently and effectively take out. It would be like trying to syphon water out of a pool with a straw. Possible, yes, but very unlikely to be done.

[NaH2O]

Do you think if you replaced the DSB in a refugium every so often that would help reduce the amount of future phosphate leaching? I plan on having a DSB in the main tank and one in the refugium that I was going to change every so often.

[dgasmd]

My first question is: what is your intended purpose for the sand bed in the first place? Every piece of equipment has a purpose and this one does too. So what are wanting to get out of it?

[NaH2O]

denitrification, a place for all the critters in the fuge, and in the main system - I may also be interested in bottom dwelling fish that feed off the fauna....but that is yet to be determined. I also like the aesthetics of a DSB.

[Edit to fix a glaring spelling error]

[dgasmd]

Originally posted by NaH2O
denitrification, a place for all the critters in the fuge, and in the main system - I may also be interested in bottom dwelling fish that feed off the fauna....but that is yet to be determined. I also like the aesthics of a DSB.

Nikki:

Aesthetics aside since it is a very personal choice, you can get all the other things you mentioned without it too. I have a large (100g) refugium and I don't ahve a speck of sand in it. What I do ahve in it is about 100 lb of LR. I out my macroalgae on top of it and wedged in between and it has attached completely. Most of the beneficial pods and such that the fish will benefit from actually are not in the sand. They grow in the rocks Lots of the others that are beneficial. but do not feed fish actually live in the macroalgae because it is where most water comes by and they can catch debris and food.
As far as littel fish that borrow and eat off the sand, they don't require or even need a DSB for it. You can put a 1/2" layer of gravel in the bottom and that would actually be even better for them because what they mostly trap there is food and some minor pods and such that do not borrow deep in the same anyway.
Denitrification can be acchieved by your LR and by removing detritus before it rots. This is flow and good skimming, which will give your corals much more benefits than the DSB will in the long and short run.
Just thought you should know there are other choices to accomplish the same end goal.

[NaH2O]

, Thanks! I never considered having the fuge without sand...hmmmm...my plan was going to be replace the sand in the fuge every so often, just to keep some of the sand "fresh". You guys are great...getting me thinking!

[mojoreef]

With pphosphates in Dsb,s and the cleaning thier after, it comes in two forms in a bed. Most of the organic form of phosphates is bound in detritus/organics and so on between the particles and they also form tough bonds on the surface of the sand particles. This form can be cleaned if you stir and grind the particles bewtween your fingers while syphoning the debris that becomes dislodged. The second form is ionically bound in the particle of sand itself (makes ya worry about how much is in thier before it ever hits you tank, lol) the only way this bond is broken is by a drop in PH. A ph drop will break that bond and set the inorganic phosphate free, the problem also is that this action melts the particle so its a togh one. But I beleive if you could take care of the organic phosphates you would be ahead of the game.

good post Alberto

Mike

[NaH2O]

Mike, just to see if I understand this correctly, I would do my DSB justice by stirring up the top layer and syphoning up any detritus that hasn't been broken down by the DSB critters....rather than leaving it alone?

[mojoreef]

Nikki IMHO by stiring the top layer of the bed and having a syphon over it to catch the debris you would be pulling out a lot of the detritus/organics that are built up in this zone. This would remove the organic phosphates that are associated with the detritus (same concept as harvesting algae). This would also make sure the arobic zone is well oxygenated, with is very important to the survival of you critters in thier and to the nitrification processing compacity, and really to slow down the sinking of that material to.

Mike

[NaH2O]

Thanks, Mike, that's what I thought, but I just wanted to be sure. It seems easy enough to do and makes sense. Is this part of the theory behind DSB filtration, or is this a modification to it?

[Maxx]

DSB 2.0?

[mojoreef]

LOL the so called dsb 101 was full of inconsistencies and mis information. Actually the largest pusher of the dsb system still has not after several attmepts been able to keep a dsb alive. In discussing the use of a dsb tank I have come across a few folks that have kept thier DSb's alive for a good period of time. Each of them have a few methods and a few so called tricks but the main thing that all of them did was what I listed above. Having a good idea how a dsb works biologically, it makes good sence and I can see how it would work.

to funny nick
Mike