Phosphate Phad?

[mps9506]

Originally posted by dgasmd



However, that means getting rid of every single fish in your tank. That is not a choice most of us is willing to take.

hmm, I recently removed the only fish in my tank
I'm going crazy over sps apparently :0
Any ideas on what macros actually remove phosphates from the water column?
Mike

[ScottT1980]

I think I remember asking Boomer or mojo the same question. I wish I could find phosphate uptake efficiency data in the literature but my attempts to do so have failed. Although, NCSU does not exactly have the best marine biology/ecology databases available to it. Does UNCW have anything?

Take er easy
Scott T.

[dgasmd]

They are all about the same and very poor at it. At least that is as far as I know. I am always open to someone teachingme something new.

[middletonmark]

Well, an interesting question Travis ... and discussion.

I guess I'd fall in the `don't consider it mandatory for all, but interested to try it' camp. No reactor here, just a low flow area of my sump has a bag of Phosban right now.

As I know how things are without running it [pretty good, actually] ... I figured it was worth a try. Like anything I felt I needed a good baseline before starting it, now in week 3 of running a test of it.

To keep in mind with some of the media chamber things is that they're almost designed with tank-size in mind IMO. The TLF one is made to run a can of Phosban, enough for 150 gallons. So on my 58g SPS tank, while I guess I could just load it up every six months or something ... I'm going low-tech for the minute. Might even DIY a chamber, seems like a simple enough task.

I dunno. I kind of feel that something's out of whack if you need to run this 24/7/365 ... it's easy to import and stock too heavily and all. It scares me that this will become something overhyped, or helpful in facilitating `insta-tanks' that seem to pop up here and there.

Heck, I'd love to have some fish I can't support the waste from ... and this would facilitate things Although I'd just rather see if it makes my SPS frags become a `jungle' just a little quicker.

Without getting a real balance in the tank prior to using one of these ... it just seems like a nutrient band-aid like a DSB would be. Masking the problem.

Where while I see their use, it ain't no substitue for nutrient-balance and getting import/export in agreement.

[sharks]

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for the tank to clear?
I just hooked up a fluidized filter with PB and here is how it looks after 15-20 min.
The fish and corals look fine just wondering when it will clear up.
TIA
S

[sharks]

DOH!
Here is a pic

[BoomerD]

Well Sharks, that looks much better than mine did. I ran the FBF with a Maxi-Jet 1200, and turned the entire tank solid orange...couldn't see 12" through the murk...Took several micron filter bags ans almost a week for that to clear up...Nothing seems to much the worse for the experience though...Fortunately, the PB tends to have somewhat similar qualities as carbon, and should help filter the fine particles out over time...Give it a few days, the heavier stuff should settle, and the finer stuff ought to get caught in your filter system...

[sharks]

OK I can’t even post a pic.
Here is what happened…
Today I was out all day at the LFS.
When I got home it was orange like you mentioned B
Then I noticed the bonded pads in the sump were clogged.
When I pulled them out the entire tank turned Pea Green!!!!!
I was freaked and spent hours ripping the house apart searching for my old diatom filter.
Cuts and scratches to prove it!
2 hours later I plug it in and no juice #$%^&*)
So I left it and will keep changing the pads and see what happens
Never mind 12” in the tank I can’t see more then 2-3”
I have resigned myself that I may loose thousands tonight or not.
Isn’t reefing fun!

I used a Red Sea Merlin Fluidized Sand chamber so maybe it pulverized the PB and that is the issue.
In the morning I will assess the tank and either do a massive water change or diatom the tank.
The PB was stuck to the glass and settled on the LR.
Thanks for the info and next time just remind me that…
If it aint broke don’t fix it!
AHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[BoomerD]

I used the Lifegard FBF with a Maxi-Jet 1200. WAY too much flow! Now, I have it running with a Mini-0Jet 404, and no problems. I still have the output dumping into a fine micron filteer sock, which still turns orangeish, but the water looks much better. Gotta change the media tomorrow, and do some other things, we'll see how it turns out...

[mps9506]

Do you guys notice any problems with your alkalinity trying to go down when runnning rowaphos or the equivelent?

From what I understand, if you don't have a very gentle flow going through the FBF with these products they have the tendancy to rub togther and break apart and get into your tank easier.
Mike

[sharks]

Well that’s what happened to me.
I didn't use a micron filter to catch the dust.
Now the reactor is practically empty and PB has been pumped into the entire system
This crap is everywhere! I will do a massive water change and I'm thinking of running the diatom.
First question?
1) Should I diatom?
2) Will it harm anything in a SW system?
3) Would I be better off hooking up a canister filter filled with sponges and filter floss?
4) Will PB harm anything? There is no way I will get it all out so will PB harm anything over a long perion of time?

Well now it's settled I was thinking of doing a tear down to move the tank, redesign, install the chiller & CA reactor. So now it looks like that will happen sooner then I thought.
Well at least I will get the chance to rid my system of all the ricordea

[mojoreef]

Interesting thread folks. I think P is one of the main things folks need to be worried about, more then nitrogen really. The hobby goes where the so called experts and such wish to take it...good or bad.
When you are approaching P you have to understand it comes in various forms and types, some we have a chance on removing some limiting entry and some no chance at all. P as with most related element cycles through the various forms, thier are certain times and instances that we can jump in and break that cycle, if left unchecked it will just grow larger and larger.
Unlike nitrogen (nitrites/nitrates and so on) P is limiting, it can only enter your tank if you put it thier, where as nitrates can be made in the tank. So the best defence on fighting P is to limit its entry. This is all and good but impossible to do completely, so no matter what you are stuck with a small constant entry of it. And thus the battle to remove it begins.
heres a few concepts for ya.
We feed the fish, this puts in Inorganic P into the tank in both soluable and insoluable forms. the fish and bacteria will pounce on it and turn the insouable IP into organic P (gone) the small amount of souable IP we have a chance at by using a P sponge (such as rowa or phosban)so first kick at the can.
Ok back to out IP that turned into organic in a critter or bacteria. once in thier it is locked up until that critter releases it. So in the case of the fish a feww hours until it poops and with bacteri until it dies (which could also be a few hours). Ok the poop, the poop is Particulate Inorganic P (as it is not part of any critters matrix), and some Soluable IP. so another shot at the P can. Now a sponge such as rowa can remove the particulate IP just the dissolved version (so a little more is removed) for the particulate tha is where a product like carbon would come into play if used. it removes particulate matter so a bit more get removes. Ok so back to the journey or the P. the fish poop/detritus/extra food can be removed if any of these forms are removed from the tank (ahhhhh the beauty of a BB,, hehehe sorry I had to) if you remove any of those or all through skimming, carbon, syphoning or what ever you have completely removed the P in all its lovely forms with the exception of the OP which is bound to the matrix of critters and some dissolved forms being constantly pooped out by the critters. the dissolved form can continue to be removed if your sponge is kept running 24/7, (deals with it as it comes into play). the detritus/poop/extra food being removed removes both the IP bound in those materials but also takes the OP out throught he removal of the bacteria that are assoc. with it (sitting on and in it feedinng on it), remember those importal words "thier is nothing good about detritus just get it out". so if you combine the above methods you have a very good chance at limiting the input and maximising the output with out effecting the growth of the critters that need it.
On the products like rowa and phospban. Fluidising them is th best method for doing it (allows more surface area for absobtion) slow constant flow is best. I just made two 24 inch so called fluidised reactors at a DIY cost of 50 bucks for both, so not a big venture. They way they work is that so much of it will remove x ammount of IP from Y ammount of water, so running it fulltime is perfect, remember IP comes out when the critters dictate not you. Having the sponge available when ever that time comes is a good thing.

anyway I am not sure if that confuses things more, but the coffie intake is low at the moment.


Mike

[BoomerD]

Well at least I will get the chance to rid my system of all the ricordea

Well Sharks, if I can be of assistance to you in that nasty chore, you feel free to send me as many of the offending rics as you need to get rid of...

[sharks]

If you are willing to pay shipping on a 14Lb bolder you can buy them
I will probably move it to the FOWLR tank.
Beleave me it I could pry them off the rock I would.
Don't kill me but for now I have resorted to killing them with the siphon hose. They are burning some of my SPS's

Anyway I'm off to do the water change...
No one has info on Diatoming a SW tank?

[BoomerD]

To the best of my knowledge, running your diatom filter should not do any harm. IF I remember right, there used to be more than 1 grade of D.E you could buy, and one of them had powdered chlorine bleach in it. If that's still true, just be careful which one you use. You're gonna be doing water changes anyway, so any extra trace elements the diatom filter happens to pull out would be getting replaced in the next change.