Feeding woes Part II - Page 2

mojoreef · 11-22-2003, 11:36 AM

Darn Curt you did that right in the middle of a long post reply you dirty dog, lol

Yea Travis I knew I wasnt going to live that one down. lol
Curt this could be a long one, lol.
Feeding live phyo in place of dead is always a better idea, the dead will begin to be reduced as soon as they hit the water through bacterial action (rotting). so yep live is better. But I think you really have to seperate these feeding habbits and requirements becuase most things dont touch phyto.
Phytoplankton are required by filter feeders such as tube worms, some sponges, some gorgonians, some types of clams, and a few corals in the dendro and nepthia familiy. So lets stay with Phytoplankton for a bit. Thier are many types of phytoplankton (90% of all marine plants are phytoplankton) and they come in a wide warty of sizes and strains (Nannochloris, Isochrysis, Tetraselmis, among others). now this makes a big difference as certian things will only eat certian type/strains/sizes of phyto. So when buying or trying to culture you must make sure you have a wide varity of types so you cover your bases. An example would be a popular product (DT's Phytoplankton). ALthough it has a decent shelf life and has tested well for live, it is made using only one type of phyto (Nanochloropsis species) so although it maybe introducing a live phyto population into your tank it may even not be used by those that consume phyto.That and under good conditions in our reef tanks a phytoplankton will only live for about a day at best.(Fabricus et al 1995,Sorokin, Y.I. (1995): Coral Reef Ecology, 2nd Edition, Springer Verlag, New York, USA. for those that may want reference).
So in the world of feeding phyto its not as easy a most would think when it comes down to it. So lets take a look at what a Phyto plankton is made of. Phyto are made of mainly nitrogen and phosphorous compounds and iron also. So if we relate it to our animals that we are trying to feed we can see why they want it...main for it nitrogen and phosphorous.
If one stands back and looks at all this put to together. Am I feeding the right or the correct ammount of differing phytoplankon, Is it live or dead. What impact does it have on my water quality, Am I really just adding phosphate and nitrogen to my tank, If all I am adding is phosphate and nitrogen to the tank is thier n0t an easier way of doing this that all coraals and critters can use it.
Anyway I ramble. So thier is a bit of how I look at it. Please join in and fill in some of the gaps.

Mike

Travis · 11-22-2003, 11:46 AM

Good education Mojo!

I'm looking at my bottle of the "new, improved" DT's that recently hit the market. It says:

Nannochloropsis
N. Oculata (2-3 microns)
N. Salina and N. Gaditana (4-8 microns)

Chlorella sp. (5-12 microns)

HTH.

mojoreef · 11-22-2003, 12:12 PM

Ahhh ok so they have changed the formula, that is a good thing and should help with the divercity needs you want but still its only 2 strains out of about 5000 I believe. From what I remember you want micron size between 2 and 20 microns so they are good thier.

Mike

Curtswearing · 11-22-2003, 12:18 PM

I'll get it right but I will make sure no one is posting on the subject at the time.

I have started using the new DT's also.

Curtswearing · 11-22-2003, 12:20 PM

I spoke with the manufacturer at the IMAC and they said that this is much better than the original formula.

However, based on my research on greenwater, I can use this to start a culture can't I?

mojoreef · 11-22-2003, 12:39 PM

Curt I spoke with him at length at the recent Macna also, a little to much length, lol. Because thier is more types then just one it makes them a little more competive in that market and yes it makes it a better product to. Yes you can also use it for a culture,

Mike

wooddood · 11-23-2003, 06:41 AM

great artical all.thanks,i just keep learning.lol but thats what its all about right?.

jks1 · 11-23-2003, 07:51 AM

my red sea wavemaker pro will also turn off all pumps and my skimmer for 30 min during feeding time, i just added the HOB ref so i will wait and see.

mojoreef · 11-23-2003, 12:33 PM

Remember when it comes to feeding particle size is everything. As long as the particle has the basic needs they want, IE: protiens, aminos and so on. They will eat it if they want, BUT only if it is the right size for them to digest.

Mike

Curtswearing · 11-23-2003, 02:27 PM

Particle size definately matters. I was having a heck of my time with a gorgonian until I switched foods.

11-22-2003, 11:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Darn Curt you did that right in the middle of a long post reply you dirty dog, lol Yea Travis I knew I wasnt going to live that one down. lol Curt this could be a long one, lol. Feeding live phyo in place of dead is always a better idea, the dead will begin to be reduced as soon as they hit the water through bacterial action (rotting). so yep live is better. But I think you really have to seperate these feeding habbits and requirements becuase most things dont touch phyto. Phytoplankton are required by filter feeders such as tube worms, some sponges, some gorgonians, some types of clams, and a few corals in the dendro and nepthia familiy. So lets stay with Phytoplankton for a bit. Thier are many types of phytoplankton (90% of all marine plants are phytoplankton) and they come in a wide warty of sizes and strains (Nannochloris, Isochrysis, Tetraselmis, among others). now this makes a big difference as certian things will only eat certian type/strains/sizes of phyto. So when buying or trying to culture you must make sure you have a wide varity of types so you cover your bases. An example would be a popular product (DT's Phytoplankton). ALthough it has a decent shelf life and has tested well for live, it is made using only one type of phyto (Nanochloropsis species) so although it maybe introducing a live phyto population into your tank it may even not be used by those that consume phyto.That and under good conditions in our reef tanks a phytoplankton will only live for about a day at best.(Fabricus et al 1995,Sorokin, Y.I. (1995): Coral Reef Ecology, 2nd Edition, Springer Verlag, New York, USA. for those that may want reference). So in the world of feeding phyto its not as easy a most would think when it comes down to it. So lets take a look at what a Phyto plankton is made of. Phyto are made of mainly nitrogen and phosphorous compounds and iron also. So if we relate it to our animals that we are trying to feed we can see why they want it...main for it nitrogen and phosphorous. If one stands back and looks at all this put to together. Am I feeding the right or the correct ammount of differing phytoplankon, Is it live or dead. What impact does it have on my water quality, Am I really just adding phosphate and nitrogen to my tank, If all I am adding is phosphate and nitrogen to the tank is thier n0t an easier way of doing this that all coraals and critters can use it. Anyway I ramble. So thier is a bit of how I look at it. Please join in and fill in some of the gaps. Mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

11-22-2003, 11:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,512 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Good education Mojo! I'm looking at my bottle of the "new, improved" DT's that recently hit the market. It says: Nannochloropsis N. Oculata (2-3 microns) N. Salina and N. Gaditana (4-8 microns) Chlorella sp. (5-12 microns) HTH. __________________ Help build the Encyclopedia of ReefKeeping Find over 1400 Reef Aquarium Articles at The Reef Aquarium Index

11-22-2003, 12:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Ahhh ok so they have changed the formula, that is a good thing and should help with the divercity needs you want but still its only 2 strains out of about 5000 I believe. From what I remember you want micron size between 2 and 20 microns so they are good thier. Mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

11-22-2003, 12:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
Curtswearing Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,596 View Gallery Karma Komment	I'll get it right but I will make sure no one is posting on the subject at the time. I have started using the new DT's also. __________________ In memory of Fluffy, please pause before hitting enter---being nice is free. Click for ReefKeeping FAQ'S Click for Product Reviews Click for Photo ID Gallery http://curtcpapfs.com/downloads/1Curt.jpg

11-22-2003, 12:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
Curtswearing Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,596 View Gallery Karma Komment	I spoke with the manufacturer at the IMAC and they said that this is much better than the original formula. However, based on my research on greenwater, I can use this to start a culture can't I? __________________ In memory of Fluffy, please pause before hitting enter---being nice is free. Click for ReefKeeping FAQ'S Click for Product Reviews Click for Photo ID Gallery http://curtcpapfs.com/downloads/1Curt.jpg

11-22-2003, 12:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Curt I spoke with him at length at the recent Macna also, a little to much length, lol. Because thier is more types then just one it makes them a little more competive in that market and yes it makes it a better product to. Yes you can also use it for a culture, Mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

11-23-2003, 06:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
wooddood the wood dude Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CARMEL. INDIANA Posts: 3,450 View Gallery Karma Komment	great artical all.thanks,i just keep learning.lol but thats what its all about right?. __________________ 120 gal/in wall tank/starboard substraight/2 250 watt 10k xm metal halides/ 4 55watt 03 actinics/150lbs lr/scwd on return/scwd on a closed loop/aquaclear aquatics 200 pro wetdry w/skimmer. ask all the questions you have if we cant answer it we'll make up some thing. remember patience is the key to a kick ass reef. dave.

11-23-2003, 07:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
jks1 Achilles Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 876 View Gallery Karma Komment	my red sea wavemaker pro will also turn off all pumps and my skimmer for 30 min during feeding time, i just added the HOB ref so i will wait and see. __________________ John Tank: 29g glass Pumps: Mag5.0 return - (3) rio 100 PHs Lighting: (1) 150w XM 10K/(2) 30W actinics Equipment: Aqua C Urchin skimmer- CPR Fuge, Titanium Heater -Red Sea wavemaster Pro Tank: 210g 1/2" Acrylic, dual overflows, 75g glass sump w/ 20g fuge. Pumps: Mag24 return - (2) MAG24s running 2 closed loop systems. Lighting: (3) 400w XM 10K/(2) Custom Sealife 96w PC - 25w dimmable incandescent Moonlight Equipment: Aqua C EV180 skimmer - CR500 calc reactor - Titanium Heater - AquaLogic single Stage Temp Controller - Aquanetics 1/5Hp Chiller - Neptune sys aquacontroller

11-23-2003, 12:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
mojoreef Just a reefer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,176 View Gallery Karma Komment	Remember when it comes to feeding particle size is everything. As long as the particle has the basic needs they want, IE: protiens, aminos and so on. They will eat it if they want, BUT only if it is the right size for them to digest. Mike __________________ Make sure you check out The Fish Gallery The Coral Gallery The Equipment Gallery

11-23-2003, 02:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
Curtswearing Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,596 View Gallery Karma Komment	Particle size definately matters. I was having a heck of my time with a gorgonian until I switched foods. __________________ In memory of Fluffy, please pause before hitting enter---being nice is free. Click for ReefKeeping FAQ'S Click for Product Reviews Click for Photo ID Gallery http://curtcpapfs.com/downloads/1Curt.jpg

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