Corals, light, [pigments and junk like that

[mojoreef]

Ok I thought it best to have this seperate as I dont want to turn the direction of the other thread. Its a goodie.
Ok here is how it works. If I get to techy just ask me .
Corals have Zoox which is an algae, actually they are dinoflagellates. they are the same as the nasty ones in our tanks but do not have a tail. With in this dino are pigments. A series of chlorophyll’s which are green and carotenoid peridinin which is yellow. (yellow and green make??? brown, thus most corals are brown) now these pigments are basically chemical molecules that possess the ability to absorb visible light photons. and so the process starts. The energy of the light photons are captured by these pigments and transfered through a sytem called ETS (electron transport system). and eventually end up in a reaction center, which leads to the formation of ATP and NADPH . ATP is the food (Hmm andrenlintriphosphate??? (sp). and nadph is reducing power. both form organic compounds the coral can use as food.
Now the ammounts of these pigments in corals is not a carved in sstone thing, they can have more chlorophyll’s and less carotenoid's or visa visa and this can influence the color of the coral and/or clam. So how does that influence the light we use??? most of the pigments chlorophyll have a strong ability to gather light in the blue and violet range. the other more dominant pigment carotenoid peridinin mostly absorbs blue light waves, but does absorb violet and a tiny bit of green. So you make the call on the K of the bulb you wish to use (or combination).
So now lets move away from the aglae that is providing food and take a look at some of the actual colors of the corals, because as we know not all corals are brown (thank God).
Also with in the coral are more pigments. they have a variety of different purposes and requirements. they reside with in the tissue of the coral itself. Now these pigments do not have the ability to traansfer light energy, but it has been found that in very deep waters they ave the ability to alter particular color wave lengths. This is done by absorbing one color and the fluorescing a color the coral can use. SPS or shallow water corals produce large ammounts of pigments under high lighting intencity. So lets get into the meat of it.
Most pigments in coral tissue are called pocilloporin and are catagorized as either Brightly Colored Low Fluorescent Pocilloporins or as Highly Fluorescent Pocilloporins. Highly Fluorescent Pocilloporin pigments have the ability to absorb light with a specific wavelength and then fluoresce or emit this light into a different wavelength. Most of the highly flouresent varity act as UV protectorants. protecting the coral and algae from UV's and to much light. the lower flourescent types tend to help the Zoox pgments convert uv and /or violet leght into something useable.
these pigments absorb light basically with in the zone of 400 to 620 nm. violet to blue to some green and some yellow and some red. they absorb those light but fluorese dofferent colors back out. the colors the fluorese out are the colors we see in oour tanks.
So conclution...sorta. most of the light waves corals use for growth are in the range of blue and violet. this is for food but not necessarly the color of the coral. the pigemnts inside the corals tissue, have a roader range of absorbtion and emit a different color then they absorb (usually). but it has nothing to do with thier feeding process.

Anyway I hope I didnt make it more confusing.

MIke

[Pro_builder]

Ok, I think I am really lost now.
So if corals absorb more Blue light than anything else, shouldn't a 20K bulb be better for the coral than a 10K? Or am I still looking at this all wrong????

Thanks for the insight to the whole lighting thing.

[reefrunner]

Better is kind of a subjective term. A 6700K bulb shoulod provide enough blue to make the zooxanthellae happy, cause it will grow under them, therefore it must be happy and healthy. As the maestro has explained to me, the last thing your coral will expend energy on is growth. The 20K bulbs will produce more UV with will activate the pigments in the corals and make them more colorful.

[mojoreef]

Yep. Troy you have to look at it on a bulb by bulb basis. An Iwasaki buld has huge ammounts of blue and violet light waves, even though it is a 65K. its intencity allows this. the 20k bulb has the big spike in blue but doesnt have alot of intencity. SO it does as Kev said. 10K ushios have a huge spike of violet so they are viable but they lack a bit in the blue department.
To be honest on the whole most bulbs in the 400 watt and in the 250 watt will wowrk just fine and grow great colorful corals. it is just going to boil down to your personal taste in the look of the tank to your individual eye.

Mike

[reefrunner]

Here is a cool link to see what colors your bulbs are peaking at, or supposed to be at a particular K temp.

http://skyserver.fnal.gov/en/proj/ad.../blackbody.asp

[sharks]

Great thread
While I hate linking to other sites I will here.
JB NY posts here from time to time and this thread on RC was awesome.
It helped me decide what bulbs to choose.
For those who can’t shop around and see all the different bulbs in use out there.
This may help you decide.
I went 250W and when I do it again it will be 400
S

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth... ng+comparison

[Playa]

Thanx Mike.

[danny254]

Great way to explain it Mike! That better helps my understanding!

Danny

[Witfull]

i wish i knew as much as mike has forgotten!

[Pro_builder]

Witt, that makes 2 of us.

[NaH2O]

Originally posted by mojoreef
ATP is the food (Hmm andrenlintriphosphate??? (sp). and nadph is reducing power.
MIke

ATP = adenosine 5'-triphosphate

NADPH = nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate

Just in case someone is interested

{edit to fix a glaring error - for those that caught it I apologize - that's what happens when I post at one in the morning on something like this- YIKES!!}

[mps9506]

Mike,
Do you have any sources for the info you provided on coral pigmentation. I haven't found much info on them personally, and everything I have learned about them has been word of mouth or a few books which usually state that info about the actual purpose of the pigmentation is a bit weak.
IE. The eaxact role UV plays in coral pigmentation.

Also with what you said abou the the pigments taking one wavelength and emitting a different better useable wavelength,
wouldn't that mean a bulb with more of peaks in the green range cause a coral to emit more blue? Where as a bulb that has a major peak at 420nm would result in a less blue coral because the pigments wouldn't need to convert anyh useable light?
Just trying to understand this a bit better as I have never really studied the pigmentation aspect of corals.

Mike

[Scooterman]

I think pigmentation is where I ws loosing it yesterday Mike, I've seen where Deep sea creatures live in total darkness, their pigmentation is none existant, or albino, clear or some sort of no coloration.

[Cougra]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here and state that in my opinion the temperature of a bulb isn't the best indicator of the colour/wavelength of light that a bulb puts out. It's good for generalization but when it comes down to telling what I'm getting I'll look for a spectrum indicator if at all possible.

Kelvin is an indication of the colour percieved not the actual light produced.

I'll trust a spectrum analysis over temperature ratings any time.

[mojoreef]

Cougra you are so right. I have seen bulbs that were advertized to be of a certain K and then when put on a scope, were something completely different. Thats why I always wait for the testing before I jump in on a new bulb.

Scooter its a tough subject with alot of different varables, good luck

Wit/Troy I have forgotten more then I remember

Mike, strong questions let me see if I can explain.
On the sources I will dig a few up for you but do some searches on GFP like protiens, and Fluorescent Pocilloporin pigments and carotenoid pigments within the Symbiodinium algae, this will give you a good start.

Mike thier are Pocilloporins pigements with in the coral that are only stimulated by the presence of UV-A and UV-B. In corals that are directly exposed to this (say on reef tops) the protien (pigment) is produced to be utilized as a protectorant (most are clear). In deeper waters it has been found that these pigments can fluoresce UV-A and violet light into more photosynthetically useable light.

Also with what you said abou the the pigments taking one wavelength and emitting a different better useable wavelength, wouldn't that mean a bulb with more of peaks in the green range cause a coral to emit more blue? Where as a bulb that has a major peak at 420nm would result in a less blue coral because the pigments wouldn't need to convert any useable light?

Mike most of that is associated with the presence of UV's. at deeper levels. Here is the general concept. Thier about 3 major protien based pigments that are know. each absorbs light at a particluar range of wave length, in turn they fluoresce at a slightly higher wave length, were talking 10 to 30 MN, so not a sweeping change, but enough to add to the total of the light. Again how this all looks to the human eye is a completely different subject.


Mike